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Post By
Omar Karindu

In Reply To
Century: Your Alien Hero

Subj: Re: They're smarter than us, which means they're right.
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:09:26 pm EST (Viewed 3 times)
Reply Subj: They're smarter than us, which means they're right.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 11:17:23 pm EST

Previous Post

> > > Also the hulk decision backfired on them(except xavier) when the hulk came back mader and stronger then before with new allies and smarter and the combined war devestated new york.(I know they didn't land him on the planet or blew the ship up killing his wife but they had to know he would be back and he would be angry for screwing him and the tape of them admditing it was stupid.
> >
> > Actually, for them (as opposed to for us readers), it wasn't really predictible/inevitable/probably, or even plausible, that he'd ever be able to return from where they were intending to send him. And let's face it, if Hulk lived on your planet, we'd pretty much all be in support of launching him into space.
> >
> > Admitting what they'd done to him was a bad move, born of their absolute belief there'd be no way back home for him.
>
> I refer the Rt. Hon. Gentleman to the record on the matter:
>
> 1) At the time they launched him into space, Hulk was living peacefully in Alaska.

But you, me, and everyone else, all know that never lasts.

> Other than the time he was driven mad by a Gamma Bomb *he was trying to defuse for the US Government* and thus can plead that he literally wasn't in control of his actions, when was the last time he actually caused major property damage? The last time I can think of was back in Byrne's excreable run.

Does the BJ-Hulk still count?

Even if it doesn't, I reiterate: If you lived on the same planet as the Hulk, chances are you'd support launching him into space, every one of you.

> 2) It's the MU. They have access to the record we as readers have access to. Strange booted the Hulk off-Earth and into wacky dimensions. Alpha Flight brought him back. He was apparently vapourised by a gamma bomb. He came back in Vegas. He had a nuke dropped on him while fighting Thor. He came back. (Oh, and Maestro was stripped down to the bones. He came back.). And that's before we consider all the NON-Hulk improbable coinkydinks that brought people implausibly back from the dead or exile - hell, Hulk just happened to bump into the Silver Surfer of all people on Sakaar. What are the odds of THAT? Which brings up the point that, considering how close the Annihilation Wave came to Earth while the Hulk was over the other side of the universe, the Bugs could well have hit the planet he was meant to land on. What odds Hulk wouldn't have pulled a Drax and pointed an A-Wave ship, not at Thanos, but at Earth?

Ah, come on, what are the odds that the Hulk could pilot a spacecraft? Seriously.

If they'd actually managed to land him on some uninhabited-by-sentient-life world of no interest to any of the alien empires, the chances of him actually getting off-world, let alone coming back, would be very remote, enough so to justify being rid of him.

> 3) $164,000,000,000.00 (±3%) [One hundred and sixty-four BILLION dollars]. That's what WWH is going to cost the MU US Gov in NYC reconstruction costs ALONE, per WWHAS:Damage Control #1. Then there's the cost of the evacuation, suing for lost business, etc.

As one of the other responses noted, the Hulk is to blame for taking his anger out on the whole city, rather than just the four men responsible for exiling him. He can share the bill with the Sentry, who probably poops gold or something anyway.

> And after that, THEY STILL AREN'T RID OF THE HULK, as I'm sure you've seen from the solicit for Teh Lobe's Hulk #4.

Well, at this point, that's the military's stupid, stupid fault for just not capping Banner right there while he was down. And how was anyone to know that There Will Always Be A Hulk, and the Anger Force would turn Ricky into Tension-Sheet Hulk? How COULD anyone have known?

> > > Reed and Stark and Pym created clor and it went screwy and killed golaith and also turned a powerful possible ally agianst stark in thor.
> >
> > Yes, they have a death on their hands, and Hank is at least guilt-ridden over that. But as for Thor, who knew
> > a) Thor would ever be back?
> > b) Thor was anti-cloning?
> > c) Thor would cretinously blame Stark for something Reed and Hank did?
>
> a) See Hulk. Hell, they only had Hercules' word Thor was dead in the first place, and he was drunk out his gourd at the time.

It's pretty much a given that Strange would be able to verify this, or Reed would have some kind of dimension-crossing machine to do so.

> b) I suggest that if someone made a clone of you, then that clone went out and murdered someone in public view, you might be a little ticked (see: Peter Parker being arrested and very nearly convicted over someone Kaine killed).

Well, only if I had no alibi for my whereabouts because I'd been buried alive by an insane Russian in a loincloth.

Otherwise, well, a murderous clone of you, he'll hate who/what you hate, and he'll act on it in the ways you secretly want to but never would.

> I mean, let's for a moment leave aside the whole morality of cloning and what have you - THEY DRESSED CLOR IN A THOR COSTUME, WAVING AROUND A COPY OF MJOLINR. If Mystique had "dressed" as Beast and gone around shooting people in the head in front of forty+ witnesses, I think Hank might have a little reason to be ticked.

Actually, she really should've done this, only "dressed" as Gambit. It'd have been a saner plan to make Rogue dump him than her trying to get into his pants.

And if Beast was deadgonenotcomingback, he doesn't know/care/be aware that he's been cloned and replaced. If he does come back, well, he's a scientist, he should respect the advances in cloning technology that will soon make other methods of producing new humans outdated and irrelevant.

> c) We've been over this. Firstly, Stark went to Thor, not the other way around. If Thor had any plans to go after Stark, Richards and Pym, it certainly wasn't at the top of his priority list - Richards & Pym apparently have a better sense of self-preservation.

The Internets honestly need to just call a mortatorium on holding anything Stark does when written by JMS or Jenkins against him, since they're just going out of their way to make him look like crap.

> Secondly, if it hadn't been for Stark, it wouldn't have happened - it was his idea, and he supplied the DNA sample. He gets at least a third of the blame.

Yes, but it's not like Richard and Pym would've been up for any kind of punishment had they objected/refused/backed down from the task, nor if they 'failed' to accomplish it. If they had any problem with doing so, they could easily have just not done it.

> Thirdly, Richards was only an acquaintance to Thor rather than a close friend or ally, and Thor was closer to Stark than to Pym. Ergo, him arranging it would hurt most.

Their brief team-up in 'Ragnarok' aside, the Thor/Stark friendship had already been sundered back in 'Standoff', remember? Stark's anti-Thor armour? War in Eastern Europe? Have we all forgotten already?

Thor's all about using his power to protect Earth. Stark, Pym and Richards should be smart enough to explain to him that cloning him enables him to go on protecting Earth from monsters/aliens/dangerous unregistered superhuman criminals, long after his death.

> > > > Also the hulk decision backfired on them(except xavier) when the hulk came back mader and stronger then before with new allies and smarter and the combined war devestated new york.(I know they didn't land him on the planet or blew the ship up killing his wife but they had to know he would be back and he would be angry for screwing him and the tape of them admditing it was stupid.
> > >
> > > Actually, for them (as opposed to for us readers), it wasn't really predictible/inevitable/probably, or even plausible, that he'd ever be able to return from where they were intending to send him. And let's face it, if Hulk lived on your planet, we'd pretty much all be in support of launching him into space.
> > >
> > > Admitting what they'd done to him was a bad move, born of their absolute belief there'd be no way back home for him.
> >
> > I refer the Rt. Hon. Gentleman to the record on the matter:
> >
> > 1) At the time they launched him into space, Hulk was living peacefully in Alaska.
>
> But you, me, and everyone else, all know that never lasts.
>
> > Other than the time he was driven mad by a Gamma Bomb *he was trying to defuse for the US Government* and thus can plead that he literally wasn't in control of his actions, when was the last time he actually caused major property damage? The last time I can think of was back in Byrne's excreable run.
>
> Does the BJ-Hulk still count?
>
> Even if it doesn't, I reiterate: If you lived on the same planet as the Hulk, chances are you'd support launching him into space, every one of you.

Ah, but I don't, and neither do you or anyone else. I live on a planet where it's fun to read stories about Hulk smashing stuff. And that makes all the difference.

> Ah, come on, what are the odds that the Hulk could pilot a spacecraft? Seriously.

Considering that he's had access to Banner's intellect for something like half his published existence at this point, those odds are pretty damned good. It's not as if Tony, Reed, et al. had never encountered the Professor and Grey Hulks, for instance; for that matter, if they'd done even a seconds' worth of research they'd have worked out that the Hulk they were exiling was one fo the intelligent variations and might've modified their plan accordingly.

None of which makes them wrong, let alone lays the blame for what happened next on them,

In any case, as fun and maybe even satisfying as it is to argue that Tony et al. were right, even you had to know that exiling the Hulk was going to set up some sort of "Hulk returns, beats down the Illuminati plot right from the start. That's just how superhero comics work; Tony Stark was always going to be pounded on so that Hulk fans could cheer, the question was merely how Marvel would get us back to that point.

In any case, I disagree in one respect: there's someone even righter for running the MU than Tony, and that's the bloke I quote in my signature. (Hint: not John Seavey.)

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey


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