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Post By
Century: Your Alien Hero

In Reply To
Omar Karindu

Subj: Re: They're smarter than us, which means they're right.
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 06:02:30 pm CST (Viewed 3 times)
Reply Subj: Re: They're smarter than us, which means they're right.
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 12:09:26 pm CST (Viewed 3 times)

Previous Post

> > > > Also the hulk decision backfired on them(except xavier) when the hulk came back mader and stronger then before with new allies and smarter and the combined war devestated new york.(I know they didn't land him on the planet or blew the ship up killing his wife but they had to know he would be back and he would be angry for screwing him and the tape of them admditing it was stupid.
> > >
> > > Actually, for them (as opposed to for us readers), it wasn't really predictible/inevitable/probably, or even plausible, that he'd ever be able to return from where they were intending to send him. And let's face it, if Hulk lived on your planet, we'd pretty much all be in support of launching him into space.
> > >
> > > Admitting what they'd done to him was a bad move, born of their absolute belief there'd be no way back home for him.
> >
> > I refer the Rt. Hon. Gentleman to the record on the matter:
> >
> > 1) At the time they launched him into space, Hulk was living peacefully in Alaska.
>
> But you, me, and everyone else, all know that never lasts.
>
> > Other than the time he was driven mad by a Gamma Bomb *he was trying to defuse for the US Government* and thus can plead that he literally wasn't in control of his actions, when was the last time he actually caused major property damage? The last time I can think of was back in Byrne's excreable run.
>
> Does the BJ-Hulk still count?
>
> Even if it doesn't, I reiterate: If you lived on the same planet as the Hulk, chances are you'd support launching him into space, every one of you.

Ah, but I don't, and neither do you or anyone else. I live on a planet where it's fun to read stories about Hulk smashing stuff. And that makes all the difference.

> Ah, come on, what are the odds that the Hulk could pilot a spacecraft? Seriously.

Considering that he's had access to Banner's intellect for something like half his published existence at this point, those odds are pretty damned good. It's not as if Tony, Reed, et al. had never encountered the Professor and Grey Hulks, for instance; for that matter, if they'd done even a seconds' worth of research they'd have worked out that the Hulk they were exiling was one fo the intelligent variations and might've modified their plan accordingly.

None of which makes them wrong, let alone lays the blame for what happened next on them,

In any case, as fun and maybe even satisfying as it is to argue that Tony et al. were right, even you had to know that exiling the Hulk was going to set up some sort of "Hulk returns, beats down the Illuminati plot right from the start. That's just how superhero comics work; Tony Stark was always going to be pounded on so that Hulk fans could cheer, the question was merely how Marvel would get us back to that point.

In any case, I disagree in one respect: there's someone even righter for running the MU than Tony, and that's the bloke I quote in my signature. (Hint: not John Seavey.)

- Omar Karindu

"A Renoir. I have three, myself. I had four, but ordered one burned...It displeased me." -- Doctor Doom

"It's not, 'Oh, they killed Sue Dibney and I always loved that character,' it's 'Oh, they broke a story engine that could have told a thousand stories in order to publish a single 'important' one.'" -- John Seavey

> > > > > Also the hulk decision backfired on them(except xavier) when the hulk came back mader and stronger then before with new allies and smarter and the combined war devestated new york.(I know they didn't land him on the planet or blew the ship up killing his wife but they had to know he would be back and he would be angry for screwing him and the tape of them admditing it was stupid.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, for them (as opposed to for us readers), it wasn't really predictible/inevitable/probably, or even plausible, that he'd ever be able to return from where they were intending to send him. And let's face it, if Hulk lived on your planet, we'd pretty much all be in support of launching him into space.
> > > >
> > > > Admitting what they'd done to him was a bad move, born of their absolute belief there'd be no way back home for him.
> > >
> > > I refer the Rt. Hon. Gentleman to the record on the matter:
> > >
> > > 1) At the time they launched him into space, Hulk was living peacefully in Alaska.
> >
> > But you, me, and everyone else, all know that never lasts.
> >
> > > Other than the time he was driven mad by a Gamma Bomb *he was trying to defuse for the US Government* and thus can plead that he literally wasn't in control of his actions, when was the last time he actually caused major property damage? The last time I can think of was back in Byrne's excreable run.
> >
> > Does the BJ-Hulk still count?
> >
> > Even if it doesn't, I reiterate: If you lived on the same planet as the Hulk, chances are you'd support launching him into space, every one of you.
>
> Ah, but I don't, and neither do you or anyone else. I live on a planet where it's fun to read stories about Hulk smashing stuff. And that makes all the difference.

While I'm preferring to approach this thread from the point-of-view of the people actually in the Marvel Universe, in that respect, the Illuminati launching Hulk into space gave us readers the best Hulk saga in many a year in the form of Planet Hulk/World War Hulk. So as far as our entertainment-value goes, we should be thanking them.

> > Ah, come on, what are the odds that the Hulk could pilot a spacecraft? Seriously.
>
> Considering that he's had access to Banner's intellect for something like half his published existence at this point, those odds are pretty damned good. It's not as if Tony, Reed, et al. had never encountered the Professor and Grey Hulks, for instance; for that matter, if they'd done even a seconds' worth of research they'd have worked out that the Hulk they were exiling was one fo the intelligent variations and might've modified their plan accordingly.

I went through this in my reply to Somebody below, and...hey, you responded there, too. I still think that no matter what he's done in the past, the chances of any Hulk incarnation managing to pilot the spacecraft of insect-people from an anti-matter universe is incredibly remote, though.

> None of which makes them wrong, let alone lays the blame for what happened next on them,

> In any case, as fun and maybe even satisfying as it is to argue that Tony et al. were right, even you had to know that exiling the Hulk was going to set up some sort of "Hulk returns, beats down the Illuminati plot right from the start. That's just how superhero comics work; Tony Stark was always going to be pounded on so that Hulk fans could cheer, the question was merely how Marvel would get us back to that point.

Well, obviously. But do we really want any of the characters to display that level of "I know I'm in a comic" self-awareness of the "rules" of how things work? That would suck the entertainment value out of it all.

For us readers, yes, the Hulk's return was inevitable. From the Illuminati's point of view, this really had a strong chance of working, and even if it went kind-of wrong in the way it did, still left a solid chance that Hulk would never get home, so we can't really say they were wrong to try, nor that they had to know he'd come back.

> In any case, I disagree in one respect: there's someone even righter for running the MU than Tony, and that's the bloke I quote in my signature. (Hint: not John Seavey.)

I know I would willingly give up "freedom to oppose Doom" in exchange for him saving the world from itself, and bringing an end to war/famine/crime, but he really would create the kind of "fascist police state" environment that nay-sayers like to claim The Initiative is. Although from the point of view that the vast majority of humanity flat-out NEEDS to be made to sit down/shut up/behave, maybe Doom is what we all need.