Avengers >> View Post
Post By
Tom

In Reply To
mjyoung

Subj: Opinion vs Logic
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 07:42:47 pm EDT (Viewed 10 times)
Reply Subj: No to you
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 05:23:41 pm EDT (Viewed 319 times)



    Quote:

      Quote:
      See that is the issue though. Marvel has largely fallen to cronyism in recent years.



    Quote:
    So at least you agree with my logic. Your position seems to be seperate.


Actually I don't. You said the character isn't used because, and I quote, "no creator cares to use the character". My point was there ARE creators who would use the character but they aren't in favor at Marvel and my point was the cronyism means that decision is being made by writers who share many of the same strengths.


    Quote:
    But you're wrong. It's not recent years and it's not cronyism. Marvel has always had certain writers that they promote, because they sell and because they are close to editorial. Look at Harras and Lobdell/Mackie in the 90s.



    Quote:
    Nothing has changed, except for your viewpoint and which writers you like. Name a writer you like at Marvel and chances are they are close with other creators at Marvel and editorial there.



On this I just disagree with the time frame. I'd consider the last 15 years or so when cronyism came back to Marvel. Though the truth is the worst cronyism was in the 70s before Shooter came on. He cleaned house and Marvel made major gains through the 80s and 90s.

I mean, Dazzler #1 was Marvel's first direct market only book and it's first issue sold 428,000 copies in 1981 compared to 200,000 for AvX #1.

Because when you reward success and get rid of writers that fail the books get better and sales go up.



    Quote:
    Again, it's a ridiculous statement to make. Bendis on Moon Knight didn't sell? Well neither did Johns on Booster Gold. Some properties aren't going to be top sellers regardless of the creators sometimes.




    Quote:
    Are you really going to say that Bendis, Fraction, Brubaker, Hickman, and Aaron are talentless? I see lots of people who would disagree with that.


I never said they were talentless. But they have very specific talents and they get burned out. Bendis was inappropriate for Moon Knight but got it because he wanted to do it. And it sucked. Fraction had a great run on Iron Man at first but it's been terrible for the last few years. Yet he isn't pulled from the book even though sales have tanked.

That's the problem.


    Quote:
    But more important than that, Stern isn't writing the book. But that doesn't matter. I could easily say "If Tom were writing the book, he'd use the character". So what?



    Quote:
    We all have characters and creators that we like. But if you like a character or creator that's not the most popular, at least understand why and that other people may not like them.


I based my statement on the fact that Stern has brought the character back every time he's written Avengers.

But the larger point is you're making a market argument for the current Marvel architects. I've shown you they often don't sell well. So your argument is invalid. Bendis, Fraction, et al. aren't always popular yet other writers aren't given the chance to step in.

So to go back to my example. Stern managed to sell more copies of Avengers with Monica Rambeau than Bendis has managed with with Spider-Man and Wolverine. But Stern isn't writing Avengers and Bendis is because of cronyism not because of some inherent popularity.