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Post By
mjyoung

In Reply To
Tom

Subj: Re: Opinion vs Logic
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 10:42:04 pm EDT (Viewed 327 times)
Reply Subj: Opinion vs Logic
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 07:42:47 pm EDT (Viewed 10 times)



    Quote:
    Actually I don't. You said the character isn't used because, and I quote, "no creator cares to use the character". My point was there ARE creators who would use the character but they aren't in favor at Marvel and my point was the cronyism means that decision is being made by writers who share many of the same strengths.


The only creators that matter here are those that are on the Avengers and associated books, or were. So writers like Bendis, Slott, Gage, DnA, Remender, Brubaker, etc. I'm sure there are other people who would like to use the character, but until they are in a position to do so, it doesn't matter.


    Quote:

    On this I just disagree with the time frame. I'd consider the last 15 years or so when cronyism came back to Marvel. Though the truth is the worst cronyism was in the 70s before Shooter came on. He cleaned house and Marvel made major gains through the 80s and 90s.


So you say cronyism exists today, in the 00s and 70s. We can also factor in the 90s and the 60s. So really the only decade where there supposedly wasn't any cronyism was the 80s? I find that hard to beleive. Even Shooter had his favorite creators. Perhaps you've just come to idealize that decade for nostaliga?


    Quote:
    I mean, Dazzler #1 was Marvel's first direct market only book and it's first issue sold 428,000 copies in 1981 compared to 200,000 for AvX #1.



    Quote:
    Because when you reward success and get rid of writers that fail the books get better and sales go up.


What does those two things have to do with anything?


    Quote:
    I never said they were talentless. But they have very specific talents and they get burned out. Bendis was inappropriate for Moon Knight but got it because he wanted to do it. And it sucked. Fraction had a great run on Iron Man at first but it's been terrible for the last few years. Yet he isn't pulled from the book even though sales have tanked.


You said "The Marvel "architects" are in the place they are because they're part of Marvel's upper management clique."

Saying Bendis was wrong for Moon Knight is your opinion, which you don't seem to back up, but has nothing to do with anything here. Marvel gave him the book because he wanted it and because they thought it would be a good idea to have that series.

IronMan was at 35K when Fraction took over in 2008. That's pretty much where the book is now. Wouldn't call that tanking.


    Quote:
    But the larger point is you're making a market argument for the current Marvel architects. I've shown you they often don't sell well. So your argument is invalid. Bendis, Fraction, et al. aren't always popular yet other writers aren't given the chance to step in.


Not sure why anything I have said is invalid. Do you want to have a discusion about sales? If Hickman, Brubaker, Bendis, etc aren't successful and popular writers, who would be?


    Quote:
    So to go back to my example. Stern managed to sell more copies of Avengers with Monica Rambeau than Bendis has managed with with Spider-Man and Wolverine. But Stern isn't writing Avengers and Bendis is because of cronyism not because of some inherent popularity.


Claremont use to sell alot, but not any more. Previous sales doesn't matter in today's marketplace.

Bendis is a popular writer who typically has very high sales. Even outside of Marvel he's had success with the books he's been involved with (like Powers). Outside of comics he's also had alot of success, being a consultant on Marvel movies and cartoons.

If you put Stern on one Avengers title, and Bendis on another, who do you honestly think will sell more? Let's see how well the Hulk Smash Avengers miniseries sales. Captain America Corps (by Stern) sold from the 22K to 9K range.



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