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Post By
christian

In Reply To
FirstChAoS

Subj: Re: Essential Membership
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 at 07:56:13 pm EDT (Viewed 16 times)
Reply Subj: Essential Membership
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 at 12:22:08 am EDT (Viewed 379 times)

Previous Post

The "miss the old avengers" post revealed a few posts I find odd. Some say that the avengers MUST always have the big three of Cap, Thor, and Iron Man. Others assume the team should mostly be the core nine (or close to it) of thor, cap, ironman, hawkeye, pym, wasp, vision, scarlet witch, and wonderman.

Though I do say I want at least one or two of the Core nine in my avengers I find it odd how many people discount any other avengers as fake.

Mind you their are some Avengers whose membership I disagree with or dislike (Sentry, Wolverine, Ares, Moon Knight, Jessica Drew, etc.) But their are any second tier (black knight, she-hulk, hercules) and third tier (Justice, Firebird, Living Lightning) Avengers I enjoy and consider valid Avengers.

This leads to a few questions I have.

If you feel the Avengers MUST be composed of the BIG three or the core nine (or a group close to the core nine) why? Do you consider those second and third tier avengers not valid as members or not fitting the avengers feel?

Any my other question is what do you consider traits that make someone avengers material?

What I feel makes a person Avengers Material is the following.

1. Heroic Acts: The character must act consistantly heroic. This means by both being willing to help, protect, and save others selflessly. And being willing and able to do so while on duty.

2. Code Against Killing: Yes I took this ones name from a disadvantage in the Champions superhero RPG. An Avengers should be unwilling to kill and only resort to such in only the most extreme and unlikely of circumstances. And even then stooping to that level should be a burden to him and a decision not reached quickly.

3. Relatively Stable: His mental state should be stable enough to be trusted in a position of power and authority. Sure almost every avenger ever has gone nuts at one time or other, but during his time as an avenger he must prove his stability and reliability in the role.



I'm 43 years old. I love comics, but don't collect them anymore. Not because I stopped wanting them, but because Marvel, under Joe Quesada, systematically destroyed each title. The writing wasn't just bad, it was atrocious. If the marketing strategy was that long-time readers like myself didn't matter anymore, and the target audience was 18 to 25 year-olds. Then, Marvel must think that young adults are absolute morons. For example, the marketing strategy that they had to 'unmarry' Peter Parker because young readers couldn't identify with a married man(apparently it never occured to them that dreadful writing may have adversely affected Spiderman sales, rather than Peter's marital status).

The Avengers is my favourite super-hero team. I used to love reading Avengers' stories. So, what happened? Well, the team got ruined by writers who thought that flagging sales meant no one liked the 'old' team. They were stale, and needed new blood. Again, they couldn't grasp that it was their own dismal writing that was the problem. Writing doesn't improve just because a writer replaces the Beast with Tigra. Or Thor with Sentry. The Avengers has a core group of 8, and a secondary group of 6. Any new characters should have been limited to ONE, and broken in alongside the core members. This is the way new members were introduced almost from the start, until around Quesada's ascendance. One here, one there, until the fans accepted them. Beast, Wonderman, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk - all separately. Not a whole crop of new characters with two core members to make it seem like the Avengers.

Also, I always felt the Avengers were like the Knights of the Round Table. Noble heroes who fight mostly villains who, under normal circumstances, would kill the Fantastic Four or the X-Men. The alpha team. But, trying to make them more like the X-Men(anti-heroes) was contrary to the whole premise of the book. Captain America is a hero. Wolverine is an assasin. Luke Cage is a thug. The Avengers should be heroes.

If they want to fix the damage they've done to the Avengers, then, aside from firing Quesada, they should have an 8 member team:

5 chosen from the core 8: Cap, Thor, Ironman, Wasp, Yellow Jacket, Vision, Wanda, Hawkeye

2 chosen from the secondary 6: Quicksilver, Black Panther, Hercules, Wonderman, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk

1 chosen as new, or a recurring third tier member. i.e. Spiderman, Black Knight, Firestar, etc.

And make sure the Avengers have standards!! No thugs or killers. To quote from an issue of Captain America(many years ago) where Cap, disgusted at witnessing Wolverine let an opponent die, says to Logan: "I hope your buddies in the X-Men can put up with you, because the Avengers would never have you."