Celebrating the 40th anniversary of Return of the Jedi

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In Reply To
Doc Boomstick

Subj: Okay, let's get into this... (And everyone is welcome to join in!)
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 09:49:06 am EDT (Viewed 423 times)
Reply Subj: Re: I don't think it's a "minor thing."
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:09:22 am EDT (Viewed 332 times)


      I don't know... I tend to also believe the brand identity of the Avengers was severely damaged with "Avengers Disassmbled" and the sudden inclusion of Spider-Man, Wolverine, Power Man, Iron Fist, Dr. Strange, etc.

    I don't think you can blame their branding problems on the inclusion of these characters though. The problem with their brand is that they've created so many teams. Mighty, New, Dark, Young, Initiative...see what I mean? You can't just pick on the guys that showed up in New Avengers when Marvel has been sweeping half the MU into the Avengers. I think it's far better to have guys like Cage and Spidey in the Avengers than to have a whole team of new characters that we've never heard of being called Avengers.

Oh, I agree. But that's just further proof of Marvel's dilution of the Avengers brand. The real problem did indeed begin with, again, the sudden inclusion of a slew of new members ... most of which already belonged to other brand franchises (i.e., "Power Man and Iron Fist," "X-Men," "Spider-Man," "Defenders," etc).

While attaining new members is certainly a hallmark of the Avengers, it is usually a slow, methodical process. As in one new member joins the team every few years. And the new members usually have no huge ties to other well-known brand franchises (e.g., Crystal, Sersi, Gilgamesh, She-Hulk, Deathcry, Triathalon, Living Lightning, Moon Knight, Dr. Druid, Quasar, Tigra, Black Knight, Black Panther, Hercules, Captain Marvel/Photon ... the list goes on and on).

Before Bendis, the only examples that seemed to buck this trend were possibly Namor (a Defender), Beast (an X-Man), and Justice and Firestar (New Warriors).

Yet now, the Avengers' classic headliners - Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Wasp, Giant-Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Hawkeye - are forced to compete with big names (arguably brand names) like Wolverine, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, and Luke Cage for prominence. And that is absolutely asinine!


      And yeah, Uncanny Avengers?!? Yikes. I mean, if Marvel wanted to work out this concept so bad, why not employ the likes of Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Beast, Wolverine, Justice, Firestar, and Namor? You know, Avengers who are also mutants? Instead, we have Cap, Thor, Rogue, and Havok?!? What the-?!?

    It's just a name. Odds are the story well be mutant-centric. It's not like they are saying that the X-men and Avengers corners of the MU are going to permanently merge.

So you're thinking Uncanny Avengers will simply be a maxi-series, not an ongoing?


      Plus, the idea flies in the face of everything the Avengers represent - that is, "fighting the good fight for EVERYONE."

    I'm not sure what you mean. Most of the time, the X-men have been saving everyone as well.

True, but that's not the X-Men mission statement.

The Avengers are a team of assembled heroes ready to face any threat to humanity at large. The X-Men, meanwhile, have always been about promoting peace and understanding between humans and mutants (which, yeah, often leads into combat with "evil" mutants and assorted "bad guys" that are out to destroy ... well, everything).


      (The X-Men's identity is all about trying to create a bridge between humanity and mutants.)

    Sure, but in reality they just end up saving people and beating up super villains most of the time. Surely there is common ground with the Avengers. If you can have Captain America as an agent of SHIELD, then why can't X-men and Avenger teams cooperate?

Common ground? Absolutely. I'd even say that the Defenders, Fantastic Four, and Micronauts find common ground in "saving the universe" or whatnot. But the brand identity of each of these teams is different.

Avengers - tackle any huge threat
Fantastic Four - explore and protect
X-Men - protect mutants and promote understanding
Defenders - "non-team" that, quite frankly, has always struggled with an identity ... other than "hey, we're the powerful misunderstood outcasts"
Micronauts - explore the Microverse and wage war against Karza*

In the past, all of these teams have managed to cooperate with one another without combining forces to create the Defending Microvengers. Or some other random silliness.

Hey, a phone call will suffice. And Vizh and Pym can then meet up with the Thing and Torch to help out against an Ultron raging through the Baxter Building. Or Xavier can inform Storm and Angel that Mari and Bug need help against Sauron in the Savage Land.

Creating a permanent merged team, again, just ruins both franchises by continued dilution and disregard for what makes each one special.


      Also, the Avengers have almost always lent Xavier's group a hand when they needed it most. Magneto's "rehabilitation" aside...

    Maybe that's what this is.

I think it's planned to be more than that...

I mean, "Cap feels guilty about not (directly) dealing with mutant persecution so he creates a new team made up of both Avengers and X-Men"...? Ugh.

* - Yes, I'm fully aware the Micronauts are no longer truly viable. (Karza's still dead, and Rann and company now call themselves the Microns, right? You know, to avoid copyright infringement. In fact, Bug is actually with the Guardians of the Galaxy or some other cosmic team, correct?) Anyway, I was simply using that group of adventurers as an example. Peace. 8\-\)

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