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Post By
Doc Boomstick

In Reply To

Subj: Re: Okay, let's get into this... (And everyone is welcome to join in!)
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 11:59:58 am EDT (Viewed 286 times)
Reply Subj: Okay, let's get into this... (And everyone is welcome to join in!)
Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 09:49:06 am EDT (Viewed 396 times)

    Oh, I agree. But that's just further proof of Marvel's dilution of the Avengers brand. The real problem did indeed begin with, again, the sudden inclusion of a slew of new members ... most of which already belonged to other brand franchises (i.e., "Power Man and Iron Fist," "X-Men," "Spider-Man," "Defenders," etc).

I think that including X-men and FFers definitely causes some confusion, especially since they continue to wear those logos. However, Spider-man is a popular character but he's not a team. I see no reason why he can't be an Avenger. Also, I would hardly call Cage and Fist a franchise. Cloak and Dagger are a more permanent duo. If anything, Defenders should be developed more into a separate franchise than it is.

    While attaining new members is certainly a hallmark of the Avengers, it is usually a slow, methodical process. As in one new member joins the team every few years. And the new members usually have no huge ties to other well-known brand franchises (e.g., Crystal, Sersi, Gilgamesh, She-Hulk, Deathcry, Triathalon, Living Lightning, Moon Knight, Dr. Druid, Quasar, Tigra, Black Knight, Black Panther, Hercules, Captain Marvel/Photon ... the list goes on and on).

I agree. I think the big change happened fast because Marvel wanted to put a shot of adrenaline into the heart of Avengers. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but they could have at least made the Avengers being completely different part of the plot. Cap and Iron Man made the team pretty legit, but they never really talked about how everyone else was a newcomer and how that might be perceived.

    Before Bendis, the only examples that seemed to buck this trend were possibly Namor (a Defender), Beast (an X-Man), and Justice and Firestar (New Warriors).

Namor predates the Avengers and has a large role in the FF's history, so in a way he's almost his own franchise more than part of a Defenders one. And the New Warriors never really had a purpose as far as I can tell. That said, why do all Earth-based super teams need to be Avengers?

    Yet now, the Avengers' classic headliners - Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Wasp, Giant-Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Hawkeye - are forced to compete with big names (arguably brand names) like Wolverine, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, and Luke Cage for prominence. And that is absolutely asinine!

It sounds like you think the only A-listers that should be Avengers are the Big 3. I can understand that from a reader's point of view, but in terms of business and the reality of how these fictional characters would act, it makes no sense that Cap wouldn't want Spider-man on his team.

Wolverine doesn't fit in, I agree. Dr. Strange is best used as a supporting character or else he gets watered down. However, Cage is exactly the type of person the Avengers would have picked up before Disassembled and Spider-man has already been a reserve.

    So you're thinking Uncanny Avengers will simply be a maxi-series, not an ongoing?

We'll see, but I doubt it will go fifty issues before cancellation or a name change. Thunderbolts is now called Dark Avengers, but i would hardly consider it an Avengers book.

    True, but that's not the X-Men mission statement.


It sounds to me that you think Marvel should only have one superteam of any given "type" at a time. So what are your thoughts on a group like Alpha Flight? Why would they not respond to the same threats the Avengers do?

    Avengers - tackle any huge threat
    Fantastic Four - explore and protect
    X-Men - protect mutants and promote understanding
    Defenders - "non-team" that, quite frankly, has always struggled with an identity ... other than "hey, we're the powerful misunderstood outcasts"
    Micronauts - explore the Microverse and wage war against Karza*

If I had to name all of the MU teams that I think should exist, I'd wipe out your Micronauts and add Heroes for Hire (street), Guardians of the Galaxy (space), and a SHIELD team. However, that doesn't mean different super hero teams can't pop up in other countries. And why is it the Avengers are the Earth's protectors but always end up fighting in NYC? If I were a villain I'd attack Paris, or St. Petersburg. Regardless, the reality is that if a global threat occurs it just wouldn't make any sense for the Avengers not to coordinate with these other teams.

    In the past, all of these teams have managed to cooperate with one another without combining forces to create the Defending Microvengers. Or some other random silliness.

It just doesn't make any sense to me that when the Skrulls come to invade Cap wouldn't call the X-men given their firepower. Of course we live in a (fictional) world where the Avengers and FF are always out of town whenever Spider-man needs help.

    Hey, a phone call will suffice. And Vizh and Pym can then meet up with the Thing and Torch to help out against an Ultron raging through the Baxter Building. Or Xavier can inform Storm and Angel that Mari and Bug need help against Sauron in the Savage Land.

But cross pollination enhances sales. That's what Marvel is going for. People buy crossovers and big events and that basically screws us because the constant big events just contort the characters while the ongoing books become filler.

    Creating a permanent merged team, again, just ruins both franchises by continued dilution and disregard for what makes each one special.

I agree, but I don't think it applies to heroes that aren't strongly associated with a team. I don't think it should be based on popularity.

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