Previous Post Quote: I would say that Captain America, when he joined, was a "brand name" separate from the Avengers. Uh, Avengers was on issue #4, and Cap hadn't been published in years. Quote: Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were associated with the X-Men. Yeah, as 2nd-rate flunkies under Magneto's leadership; they weren't X-Men. And the X-Men was - what? - in its first year? C'mon... Quote: Ms. Marvel was connected to Captain Marvel. Moon Knight was kind of on his own. Hercules was connected to Thor I suppose. Would Black Panther have been considered to be part of the Fantastic Four? The fact that you're asking questions about these characters just points to the fact they were only loosely connected to their brand franchises. It's not like Thing and the FF ... or Spider-Man and the Spidey family of titles ... or Wolverine and the X-Men ... or a solo character that has been a constant headliner since the 60s like Daredevil ... or Iron Fist, the latter half of "Power Man and..." Quote: Falcon was part of Cap's brand. She-Hulk a part of the Hulk's brand (both, admittedly, having Avengers ties). War Machine a part of Iron Man, Gilgamesh, Sersi and Starfox are Eternals, USAgent part of Cap's, would Quasar count as SHIELD? So yeah, now, you understand what I pointed out earlier? Most new Avengers members were either loosely tied to other franchises. Or not at all. Quote: Thunderstrike part of Thor, Justice and Firestar were New Warriors. Crystal was part of the Fantastic Four. Again, I'd argue Crystal was only loosely tied to the FF. And Eric Masterson was technically one of the "big three" for a while ... so your point? Finally, I addressed Justice and Firestar (as well as Beast and Namor) in my initial post. Quote: I agree that it has become ENTIRELY too easy to become an Avenger... it seems like if you show up at the tower or the mansion you're automatically a member. True. There have been a veritable cornucopia of new members since Bendis took over the Avengers books. Quote: However, I disagree that the Avengers don't have a history of including members who belonged to other brand franchises. Actually, you kinda do agree with me, based on your posts, amigo.

Kind of agree... my point with Cap was that right from the beginning there have been members connected with other franchises. In fact, even the founding members were more connected with their own franchises than the team... that is kind of the point. "...When earth's mightiest heroes found themselves united against a common threat."

The Avengers, more than the FF, X-Men, Defenders or others are intended to bring heroes together. Iron Man was his own brand. So was Thor, the Hulk, Giant Man/Wasp. So, for me, an Avenger's previous connection isn't a deterrent from them joining.

WCA #4 (I think it was issue 4) is a great example of this. The Thing joins and a lot of the discussion has to do with what a coup it would be to have a former member of the FF join the Avengers. I think if members of other "franchises" join it should be a bigger deal... I don't think that becoming a member has the same status as it used to. THAT is my issue... not what franchises new members were connected with.

As far as Crystal only being loosely tied to the FF... She had at least 2 stints as a member. I know the second stint was fairly long. How much closer should the ties be?

I realize that you addressed Justice, Firestar, Beast and Namor in your initial post. Did you notice I was going through the members in a basically chronological manner and indicating which ones had ties to other franchises?