Celebrating the 40th anniversary of Return of the Jedi

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Doc Boomstick

Subj: Re: Okay, let's get into this... (And everyone is welcome to join in!)
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:00:35 pm EDT (Viewed 249 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Okay, let's get into this... (And everyone is welcome to join in!)
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 04:27:53 pm EDT (Viewed 269 times)

First of all, it seems I might be a bit older than you. (Sucks feeling old!) Anyway, I'm 39 and have been reading comics since the late-70s/early-80s.


      Actually, Byrne's Nebula story from the early 90s illustrated why Cap wouldn't want Spider-Man on his team. It also pointed out why Spidey wouldn't want in on the Avengers.

    I don't have that one. Care to summarize?

Yeah, the story ran in 1990 from Avengers issue #s 314-318. Basically, the entire universe disappears, Nebula is the threat, the Stranger shows up, and Sersi joins the team. Oh, and so does Spider-Man.

You see, Spidey helps Thor protect some civilians and accompanies him back to the remains of Avengers mansion (this storyline happened hot on the heels of "Acts of Vengeance"). There, Spidey continues to help out ... and Cap ends up offering him membership, which Spider-Man finally accepts.

However... Through the course of the adventure, Spidey's continually freaking out at all of the cosmic events, his sense of humor (used to try to mask his freaking out) starts to grate on his fellow Avengers, and in the end? Well, Spidey wants out. Cap asks him to reconsider. Spidey still wants out. And Cap reflects that things probably worked out for the best as Spider-man really isn't Avengers material.

So it really boils down to the fact that Spider-Man feels more at ease operating alone, prefers dealing with less cosmic/epic threats, and is possibly just a bit too immature to hang out with the likes of Thor, Iron Man, and Cap.

BTW, the lineup in this story was Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Vision, Sersi, and Spidey.

Pretty good story, with some great artwork by Paul Ryan (inked, of course, by Tom Palmer).


      And yeah, I think to preserve the brand identity of the Avengers, the "big three" should be your only "A-listers" (as you put it).

    I think you have to choose between have an Avengers brand in the way you imagine it and having the premier MU super team that responds to all major threats. By having it both ways, you're saying only the Big 3 and their sidekicks can respond to global threats.

I never said the Avengers should be the "premier" superteam. Actually, I think that honor should probably go to the Fantastic Four. The FF are probably regarded more highly around the world (and the universe, for that matter) than the Avengers.

The Avengers are like a combat strike team. And a soldier, divine warrior, and armored knight are the perfect combo to lead such a team.


      Millar recognized this with the Ultimates. And Marvel Studios recognized this with their film franchise. (BTW, Hulk works great for the films, less so with the comics; Hulk hasn't been a regular member of the Avengers since the 4th or 5th issue, obviously.)

    Millar was recreating what was already there. It wouldn't have made sense to add people like Spider-man. However, if Marvel owned the film rights to Spider-man, I wouldn't bet against him making an appearance in Avengers.

Actually, that's not true. In fact, Millar insisted he be allowed to use the "classic" characters; he was facing a lot of pressure to include more "premier" names in the book. But Millar felt he could make the original Avengers interesting and relevant for the Ultimates.

And he was, of course, correct.

BTW, if Marvel owned the rights to Spider-Man... Well, who knows if he would be included in the Avengers? A ton of fans seem to think so, but if you're basing the film franchise on the Ultimates (which Marvel have so far), then Spidey really doesn't fit. Plus, there's a pretty big age difference between Peter Parker and the likes of Stark, Rogers, Banner, Barton, etc.


      I'm still a bit torn on the "Power Man and Iron Fist" members. No matter how much you try to separate them? Or give them their own series over the years? People will ALWAYS remember them best as ... "Power Man and Iron Fist."

    I was introduced to both characters individually, so I'm not overly loyal to the team book (Cage hasn't even been called that in quite some time). I think their friendship is one of their defining traits, and that Heroes for Hire team/angle is original enough exist on its own in the MU.

Maybe this is an age thing. But for me and my friends, it's really hard to separate the two characters.

And Luke Cage will always be Power Man to me.

But know he is actually going by the name Power Man in the new Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon. Just fyi.


      X-Men - promote peace between mutants and humans; protect mutantkind
      X-Factor - help mutants adjust to normal lives among humans; protect mutantkind
      New Mutants - X-Men-in-training
      Excalibur - British equivalent of Avengers
      Alpha Flight - Canadian equivalent of Avengers
      Defenders - non-team full of powerful "outcasts;" more of a safe gathering place for antisocial characters such as Hulk, Namor, Silver Surfer, etc.
      Fantastic Four - explorers, science team, and protectors of Earth
      Avengers (East Coast) - strike team to tackle huge menaces
      Avengers (West Coast) - ditto
      New Warriors - "club"/training ground for young heroes
      Nightstalkers - deal with supernatural/paranormal threats
      Heroes for Hire - the comic, however, would be titled "Power Man and Iron Fist;" PM, IF, Misty Knight, and Colleen Wing would handle more "street-level" threats
      S.H.I.E.L.D. - global espionage and security force
      Guardians of the Galaxy - cosmic!

    Marvel could only hope that their fans could support this many team books.

This used to be a non-issue. Back in the "good old days."

Now, however? If a team's not tied to Avengers or X-Men, well, it soon will be. hahahaha

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