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Post By
Reverend Meteor

In Reply To
Omar Karindu

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 4,242
Subj: Re: There are a lot of older technologies.
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 at 04:12:14 pm EDT (Viewed 9 times)
Reply Subj: There are a lot of older technologies.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 08:12:55 am EDT (Viewed 234 times)



    Quote:
    In researching this, I've found that it's a lot more complicated that PYm vs. Morgan where shrinking technology is concerned.



    Quote:
    Pym's very first appearance in TtA #27 has him shrinking a chair with a process that requires a second serum to grow the object back to normal size; in contrast, Morgan's first appearance has him refer to his stuff as "cellular compression gas" that works for only a few minutes before the organic tissue instantly returns to its normal size. Pym's first couple appearances as Ant-Man have him call his stuff "tissue shrinking" gas....but every time he uses it, it makes his metallic helmet shrink down with him, so it's a bit of a wash.



    Quote:
    I'll grant you that no one has ever said Morgan's process doesn't use Pym Particles, but no one's ever explicitly said it does, either, and Morgan *always* calls it "cellular compression," even in his 1970s appearances when he could easily call it something else and Pym is no longer saying his stuff only works on organics (maybe because he finally noticed that his helmet shrinks too).



    Quote:
    So either Morgan's gas doesn't work like Pym Particles or Morgan is too stupid to understand his own work. At best, he's Hendrik Lorentz and Pym is Albert Einstein, and we don't give Lorentz credit for the theory of relativity. Science is about explaining the mechanism accurately, not merely bumbling into something and then demanding credit. And Pym does seem to be the person who developed and accurately described a working mechanism for a shrinking/growing process where everyone else makes isolated, usually deeply flawed discoveries. Jerrold Morgan, on the other hand, has made few real contributions to anything other than grumbling about his disfigurement and his flawed shrinking process since his return appearance in 1976.


I think Morgan really is that stupid. He's brilliant but in some ways stupid and/or sloppy. Chondu's comment about Morgan always left me with the impression that Morgan beat Pym to the discovery of shrinking. Morgan was sloppy, he paid for it but the discovery truly was his IMO.

To me Gerber's point was that Morgan discovered the shrinking method before Pym. If a later retcon says Pym's method was not one of cellular compression then I assume that retcon accounts for Morgan's discovery as well and Morgan was too dim to realize that shrinking things shunts their mass to another dimension. That lack of insight is probably why Morgan is in the shape he is in.




    Quote:
    If we really want to go after people, we should probably bring in Heinrich Zemo, who had shrinking androids back in 1945 when he "killed" Captain America and Bucky, and Otto Krieger, later called Captain Axis, who researched such stuff in the 1940s and later helped Doctor Doomd evelop the shrinking ray used in Fantastic Four v.1 #10. And there's also the "Z-Ray" pit from the WWII Cap story in Tales of Suspense #69, which was created by the British scientist Cedric Rawlings, who worked with the Nazis years before Zemo and Krieger's apparent research. So maybe everyone's ripping Rawlings off? That said, Z-Rays are blocked by lead, and Pym Particles aren't, so maybe these *are* all different technologies as their differing names would suggest?



    Quote:
    I also guarantee that if we dig into 1940s and 1950s Timely-Atlas-Marvel comics we'll find lots more of this kind of thing predating the examples above. "Shrinking rays" and "shrinking gas" were pretty common plot devices back then. (Personally, I've never had much time for shrinking and growing heroes, though DC's Atom has the mass-shifting gimmick as well, and comes off a little better for it. And I do like Erik Josten as the villainous Goliath, though not so much as an indecisive wannabe hero.)





    Quote:
    In any case, there are plenty of things wrong with Hank Pym already if you really want to talk about how lousy he is. Saying that he's the Newton to someone else's Liebnitz, in that he and a lot of other characters seem to have independently discovered the same process, doesn't do much damage...especially since, as you yourself note, the worst-case scenario is that Pym perfected and found multiple applications for something almost everyone else screwed up badly.


Yeah it was just another thing to lop at Hank but not so much a serious deconstruction of his self-worth.


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