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Subj: Re: They should really do something about that
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 at 09:23:07 am EDT (Viewed 243 times)
Reply Subj: Re: They should really do something about that
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 at 11:30:46 am EDT (Viewed 2 times)
Quote:He killed people for money and enjoyed it. Unlike the Punisher he worked for bad people like Tolliver. He once killed a pizza delivery guy for spreading a rumor about a female classmate back in high school.
The killing of the delivery boy I think is out of character even for Deadpool, especially at that much more recent period in his life. I'm going to put that one down to simple bad writing.
I dont get hung up on the fact that Deadpool kills people for money. I dont recall much to suggest that he took a special enjoyment from it - certainly not in the way that Sabretooth or Bullseye did - and there hasnt been much mention of exactly who he killed in the unseen years. Probably safe to assume that they werent all bad guys, but as I said earlier this was the beginning of his career before any kind of desire to redeem himself.
Quote:Wolverine for example has probably willingly killed dozens - does it really matter whether they were 'bad guys' (and I doubt all of them were)- he's a good guy now. Black Widow participated in Russias actions during the Cold War, and no doubt murdered, assassinated and sabotaged her way through the 1950's to the 1990's. If Russia had won the Cold War then her actions would have made her a national hero, its only because America won it and history is written by the victor that there is any criticism of her character (because American agents would have definately been doing exactly the same).
Quote:Well personally I don't think Wolverine is morally any better than Deadpool so I won't argue.
Then what about the Widow and other government types like her? The only thing that makes most of the people she killed 'bad' was the fact that they fell on the wrong side of a political divide - they wouldnt have been enemy combatants or soldiers killed according to the rules of war, they would primarily have been political and social opponants I expect, and many of them would more than likely have been completely innocent by any objective sense beyond the fact that Comrade Stalin/Kruschev/Gorbachov didnt like them. Does she or Nick Fury for that matter get redemption for all the good they have subsequently done?
Quote:My problem is that a lot of Deadpool's actions aren't redeemable. He killed for money. He liked doing it.
This seems to be the crux of the matter - ideology. I suppose you either accept that a person can redeem themselves or you dont. Deadpools quest for redemption is a never ending one. He will never feel totally redeemed - the fact he doesnt value himself and is full of self loathing is a common reoccuring theme in his books, and he can only hope that in his long life he can do as much good as possible and hope that others feel he balanced the books a little come the end.
Quote:A lot of other characters you can give an out to. Punisher may like killing but all the people he kills are dirty and he doesn't get paid for it. Wolverine may be a mass murderer but he doesn't like what he does. Black Widow and Captain America have killed out of patriotism but they were sanctioned by their governments. But Deadpool killed for money, sold himself to super villains and terrorists and he enjoyed his job.
I'm not sure how by any conventional perspective of justice a character like the Punisher can really be considered more redeemable than any of the Marvel Universes other mass murderers. The fact that he kills 'bad guys' isnt a justification for preemptive murder in any society. We give him a free pass as fans because he's doing what every person has probably dreamed of at one point or another with the whole eye for and eye thing - in fact its rarely just an eye for an eye with him - his actions are rarely proportionate to the crimes.
I dont like Deadpool as an Avenger for the same reasons I dont think that the Punisher should ever be an Avenger. I agree that no matter how much good they might do, it does not wipe their past clean, but at the same time If Deadpool is acting heroically in the present out of a genuine feeling of alturism, I dont think that his past should devalue his contribution anymore than I think that the crimes of a murderer who leaves prison, sees the light and gets involved in outreach programmes or teaching kids not to go down the same path he did does. Sure, he'll never shake that spectre of his past, and its right that there should always be some judgement of people who commit such horrible crimes, but that doesnt mean he cant be praised for his actions in the present or his efforts to do better.