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Post By
Mr_Vespa

In Reply To
Blue Jay

Subj: Re: Brown's death should have changed Batman!
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 at 04:25:35 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: Brown's death should have changed Batman!
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 at 03:38:45 pm EST

Previous Post

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> > I think a better more important issue should have been Batman figuring out that he has become unstable. Seriously, what kind of person is Batman when he keeps putting kids without any training in dangerous situations? Instead of facing up to this issue DC pulls a page out of Women in Refrigerator Syndrome and passes the buck to Leslie Thompkins. They also retcon Robin 2's death so that now Batman is free of blame as well.
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> I honestly don't see how people keeping wanting to put the culpability for Stephanie's death on Batman. He had tried to get her off of the streets, on numerous occasions. There was an entire issue of Gotham Knights where he is proving to her that she isn't cut out for the game and that she should hang it up. The entire point of making her Robin was to try to give her some form of training that would hopefully keep her alive. When he saw that it wasn't working, he fired her and once again told her to stay off of the streets. Time and Time again he tried to get her to give up the game. He did not put Stephanie in the position that got her killed. He did everything in his power to prevent it. Steph simply refused to listen to reason from anyone.
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> And, I don't see how Steph's death could have served as a wake-up call. It validated everything he had predicted about her. Even poorly implemented, it validated the effectiveness of his War Game Protocol. Basically, War Games was 18+ issues of: Gosh, you were right all this time Batman. That's not going to wake anyone up.

Apparently you did not read the comics. In the comics there is some dispute as to just how much Batman is to blame for Stephanie's death. When Batman got Stephanie to be Robin's replacement even Alfred thought that Batman might be doing this just as a way to manipulate Robin into coming back. Like you said Stephanie was not ready, but Batman knowing she was not ready still put her in the position of being the fourth Robin. This where Batman's actions come completely into question and even Batman later admits that he was under so much stress that he may not have been thinking right. After Stephanie's death, the whole Batman gang, including Oracle, Nightwing, and Robin 3 say that Batman really messed up and was completely irresponsible in making Stephanie Robin 4. After hearing this Batman does not utter a word.

So there is a great deal of contention as to who is really to blame for Stephanie Brown's death. According to Batman it was Leslie, but according to Oracle, Nightwing, Robin 3, Alfred and Leslie it was Batman's fault. So, simply by number of votes it was Batman's fault.


> Apparently you did not read the comics. In the comics there is some dispute as to just how much Batman is to blame for Stephanie's death. When Batman got Stephanie to be Robin's replacement even Alfred thought that Batman might be doing this just as a way to manipulate Robin into coming back. Like you said Stephanie was not ready, but Batman knowing she was not ready still put her in the position of being the fourth Robin. This where Batman's actions come completely into question and even Batman later admits that he was under so much stress that he may not have been thinking right. After Stephanie's death, the whole Batman gang, including Oracle, Nightwing, and Robin 3 say that Batman really messed up and was completely irresponsible in making Stephanie Robin 4. After hearing this Batman does not utter a word.
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> So there is a great deal of contention as to who is really to blame for Stephanie Brown's death. According to Batman it was Leslie, but according to Oracle, Nightwing, Robin 3, Alfred and Leslie it was Batman's fault. So, simply by number of votes it was Batman's fault.

So, they took a vote and decided it was Batman's fault? You realize how foolish that sounds? And yes, I did read the comic. While Alfred suspected that Steph as Robin was a play to manipulate Tim it was never fully established. And I spoke with Willingham (guys not a bad poker player and is a fun guy to have a brew with) who stated that was not his intention going into the story. So, you are left with a couple of interpretations as to why he made steph Robin. The fact remains, while making Steph Robin was a mistake, he rectified that error and told her under no uncertain terms that she was not continue her vigilante activities. That's like blaming a parent who repeatedly tells a child not to stick her finger in a wall socket only to have the child do just that the moment the parent's back was turned. Batman tried to provide Steph with training. Both when she was Spoiler and again when she was Robin. He determined that she did not have the make up to do the job and told her to quit. You want to blame someone, how about The Birds of Prey, Robin, or Batgirl, who kept encouraging her when they should have trusted Bruce's judgment on the matter.


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