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Subj: Not bias against TKJ just your interpretation of it
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 at 04:45:30 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: Lots of bias against TKJ
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 at 03:44:50 pm EST
> It seems this message board is filled with people that are biased against TKJ going as far as believing that the origin in it is highly questionable and not at all definitive.
I absolutely love the Killing Joke but as many other around here I don't agree with your belief that we are neccesarily learning the real origin of the Joker. That is the big difference. It is not so much a matter of bias against TKJ as it is against your interpretation of it.
> What many fail to understand is that the Joker is unsure of his own origin, however TKJ is written by Alan Moore to give the audience his definitive origin of the Joker.
Where have you ever heard Moore state this. The book itself plainly states that sometimes he remembers it one way and sometimes another. That's part of the beauty of the story. This way Moore actually allows for ALL different origins by any creator to be true. There is no difinite version, it can change as often as creators want to change it without that ruining the versions that came before or after. It's the perfect retcon.
> Never has it been said anywhere that the origin of the Joker in TKJ is not definitive, in fact such an origin has been reinforced several times, only the Joker's awareness of such an origin is questionable, but everybody that has read TKJ is supposed to be aware that the origin there is true.
It has never been stated that the origin in TKJ IS definitive. We have had Joker origin stories that have used the origin from TKJ and we've had stories that didn't. While being a great companion piece to TKJ, The Man Who Laughs by Brubaker didn't really acknowledge TKJ origin, except for the fact that the Joker was the Red Hood before becoming the Joker and that was not a TKJ invention.
> I only found out about Batman: The Killing Joke because everywhere I went online people lauded it as the definitive origin that cannot be questioned. By the way it is not my take on the origin, it is Alan Moore's take on the Joker origin. If anybody has a better one I would sure like to see you write it for DC, because the only origin we have is TKJ's origin.
No there have been more than the Moore version, such as the recent Batman Confidential one (which wasn't all that good though). What is so great about the origin in TJK is the fact that the definitive origin of the Joker is that there is no definitive origin.
> So I am going to list different places that have fans of Batman: The Killing Joke.
And I'm sure you'll find a lot of fans around here as well, just not fans of the same interpretation that you have of it.
Yes it is true that the story in Legends of the Dark Knight and Gotham Knights claim that the origin we saw in TKJ is true but personally I am of the opinion that the writers of those stories completely missed the point and rather than reinforcing TKJ they weakened it and they are definitely not on the top of my favorite Joker stories.
> If you do not like the Joker's origin in TKJ that is fine, but do not merely throw that origin to the wind for no reason, instead come up with your own origin that is better and then bring it out, otherwise if you cannot put out then just live with origin you have.
I don't thrown it to the wind for no reason. I throw it to the wind because in my opinion the fact that this was just one possibility and for a character like the Joker having a definitive origin that is not definitive is the absolute best origin. I happen to like the origin we saw in TKJ but at the same time I love the fact that it isn't neccesarily the right one. This leaves every writer in the future free to explore their own version without any of them having to negate the others.
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