Batman >> View Post
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Post By
darth-sinister

In Reply To
Blue Jay

Subj: Re: Check it out again.
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:32:11 pm EDT
Reply Subj: Re: Check it out again.
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:05:43 pm EDT


> > >
> > > Hey, just because she is with some guy, doesn't really mean he is her fiancee even if he is called that. She was Bruce's girlfriend first. If anything her fiancee is more like a friend.
> >
> > Wait, what? Okay, so let me get this right. Silver says she has a fiancee, but he's not because she doesn't really mean it? I'm sorry, but what kind of logic is that? If she said fiancee, that means fiancee. The man she intends to marry. Not intending to be a friend. In other words, Bruce was doing something that went against his characte, written by your hero, Steve Engelhart.
> >
>
> Against his character?
>

Sleeping with a women who was engaged to be married. He never did that before.

> Silver was with a guy she didn't give a damn about.
>

She did give a damn about him. That's why they got engaged and that's why she wondered about what she was going to do. It only went out the window when she cheated on him, which speaks ill of her character as well as Bruce.

> > > I did know about the whole fiancee issue, but having read the comic her fiancee never really amounted much to her. If anything he was more of a fling or a friend and not a fiancee. While she was with the guy all she could think about was Bruce Wayne. It is not even clear what if any relationship she had with her supposed fiancee, other than having pecks on the cheek.
> >
> > Up until she returned, she had gotten engaged and was planning to get married to someone other than Bruce Wayne. That is a fiancee, not a friend. I suggest you buy a dictionary.
> >
>
> I suggest you look up settling for.

I do know what the phrase is. But cheating is still cheating and they are both guilty of it. Both go against their better nature.


>
> > > > > Show me when Englehart had Batman have a kid and not know about it.
> > > >
> > > > Englehart didn't but O'Neil did. The story was called Son of the Demon and at the time it was supposed to be in-continuity.
> > >
> > > Here you made a mistake like I did. I too have gotten comic book stories confused sometimes. Son of the Demon wasn't by O'Neil. It was by Mike Barr. O'Neil considered the story so bad and offensive he had it thrown out of continuity back when he was editor at DC.
> >
> > Ah, but O'Neil is no longer group editor of the Batman books. Hasn't been for some time. The current editor is Mike Marts and before him was Peter Tomasi. They're the ones who have allowed Morrison to cherry pick what he wants from Batman's 69 year history.
> >
>
> Exactly, bad editors.

That doesn't make Tomasi or Marts bad editiors. That makes them good ones, because they're doing what DC was afraid to do for years. Acknowledge their long history and embrace it. Something they were criticised for not doing until the last ten years.

>
> > Yes, yes. However, Batman wanted to find a different solution because the Joker had changed from the way he was in "The Man Who Laughs" to the way he was when "Robin Dies At Dawn" takes place. The Joker went through a rebirth process, changing into a comedian/clown type who killed far less frequently and was more of a prankster. So he had reason to take part in Dr. Hurt's experiment. Also, during this time period, Batman was very trusting of other people. So he had no reason to assume that Hurt would become a villain down the line. Just as he didn't assume that no one in the JLA would wipe out ten minutes wroth of memories or Hal Jordan would become Parallax.
> >
>
> Yes, according to Morrison, who has been completely discredited. He is pretty much on par with Mike Green and Jeph Loeb.

How has Morrison been discredited? Michael Green? His work hasn't been acknowledged. Hell most everything in "Confidential" for both Superman and Batman have been ignored. If anything, his work has been contradicted. Loeb? I thought you hated Loeb's work? Anyway, "The Long Halloween" and "Dark Victory" take place after "The Man Who Laughs" and before the Joker's first change, which occured in the stories from the 1950's. By the time of "Robin Dies At Dawn", the Joker had changed. He would change again when "The Joker's Five Way Revenge" takes place, followed by "Strange Apprations". When "The Killing Joke" occured, he had changed yet again, followed by "Arkham Aslyum" and "A Death In The Family". He would change again in "Batman & Son".

>
> > No, he was a nobody terrorist. Anybody can take down Batman, if they plan it out right. Take Promethus in JLA #16. He whupped Batman's ass pretty good. Take Hush who managed to shoot out Batman's grapnel line and send him crashing into the street, nearly killing him. Superman pummeled his ass. Hal Jordan knocked him down with one punch, without even using his power ring.
> >
>
> Keep listing the bad works.

No, those are your opinion that they are bad works.

>
> > Marketing is to get you to buy a book. However, not everyone agrees that Engelhart was the definitive. You ask DC and various fans and they'll cite O'Neil, Fox, Morrison, Dini, Wagner, Moore, Loeb, Timm, Dixon, Grant, Barr, Ostrander, DeMatties, Rucka and Brubaker.
> >
>
> Marketing is there to get you to buy into copycat and alternate versions, while dismissing the definitive version.

No, you are trying to claim that your opinions are facts. Those writers will all tell you that there is no one definitive Batman. Even Engelhart will say that. There are variations. The closest you'll ever get to a universal agreement will be the Batman from the DCAU. The one who appeared in "Batman: The Animated Series", "The Adventures Of Batman & Robin", "The New Batman/Superman Adventures", "Batman Beyond", "The Zeta Project", "Static Shock", "Justice League", "Justice League Unlimited", "Batman: Vengeance" and "Batman: The Rise Of Sin Tzu".


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