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Post By
Gawain

In Reply To
CensusTaker

Subj: Re: When Morrison said `been there since the beginning...' RIP spoliers I guess
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 04:45:18 pm EST (Viewed 209 times)
Reply Subj: Re: When Morrison said `been there since the beginning...' RIP spoliers I guess
Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 09:23:47 pm EST (Viewed 207 times)


> > > in that interview talking about hurt/black gloves identity being biggest reveal of year/decade or whatever (I cant find it), did he specifically say "been there since the beginning of Batman' or just the more vague `beginning'. Because, while all the blogosphere was guessing about early Batman characters being BlackGlove/Hurt (alfred, thomas wayne, thomas wayne junior, batman himself, joe chill) maybe Morrison did really mean `the beginning of time' and was letting us know the reveal- that Hurt is the Devil in disguise- it a criptic manner. I wouldn't put it past him.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> >
> > Yeah, that's always been part of the evidence supporting the idea of Hurt as the Devil. I still don't like the idea, but it's at least better in my view than having Thomas Wayne suddenly show up alive, crazy and evil. But my big beef is that we need to have this discussion at all. We still don't know who, and we still don't know why, and until we do those are some big gaping holes in the story.
>
> Then again, looking back at other Batman villians we didn't necessarily learn all about them within their first few appearances (Ra's appeared a half dozen times before the 1st mention of a lazarus pit didnt he? We didnt get a Joker origin for 40 years after his debut, Penguin, Riddler & Mr. Freeze's backstory's and motivations have all been changed retroactively. I think other reoccuring batvillains haven't had their origins explained at all, but I'd have to enter reasearch mode to be sure) so I don't really have a problem with the open ended nature of this mystery. Heck, we still don't know who Doctor Claw is 20 years after the Inspector Gadget show finished, doesn't stop it being a good cartoon.

It's fine having unknown aspects about a character, I never said he need to know all about him. I'd even be happy with a clear explanation of why he wanted to destroy Bruce Wayne without knowing who Hurt is, IF they hadn't hyped the revelation of his identity as being a big deal and part of the mystery. This wasn't a business-as-usual here's-a-new-villain story, this was a major event that they promoted and marketed as such, and which promised a) the end of Bruce Wayne as Batman, and b) the shocking revelation of the identity of the Black Glove/Dr. Hurt. It delivered neither.

They left the fate and future plans of Bruce Wayne completely unknown -- we only assume he's giving up being Batman because that's what they told us was going to happen outside of the story; without that piece of information the ending is almost completely incomprehensible. And they left the identity of the main villain as a multiple choice question including "d) none of the above". In fact, they left it so open-ended that I'm more than half-convinced they haven't yet decided themselves which way they're going to go with it.

Again, that can be fine in a normal story, but not in something that was promoted as a watershed event in the history of the character. Here's what I get out of the ending of RIP:
"Bruce Wayne has stopped being Batman, but we aren't going to tell you why. It was somehow related to this guy who launched an attack on his very sanity, but we aren't going to tell you who he is or why he did that. It's just a mystery. A character with almost 70 years of history is changing drastically, but we don't think the reasons are important. We'll give you a few vague hints that may or may not turn out to be true. Knock yourselves out making up your own endings... at least we don't have to pay you."



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