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Post By
Quinn

In Reply To
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: Batman 20 Review
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 at 04:30:56 pm EDT (Viewed 7 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Batman 20 Review
Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 at 01:09:38 pm EDT (Viewed 308 times)

Previous Post


    Quote:
    Wow, what to say about this issue?


I quite enjoyed it.


    Quote:
    Neither Bruce or Bane lose any teeth or have their jaws or noses broken.


I'd venture that Bane's nose is broken in the final page of the fight.


    Quote:
    When they're both worn out. Bane says I'm Bane, I'll kill your dog, eat your lunch, destroy your 47 sidekicks, urinate on your buildings, kick down that sand castle you spent so much time building at the beach. Bruce shows he is familiar with memes and says "Because I'm Batman" and head butts Bane, knocking him out.


Funny!


    Quote:
    And then we cut to a weird scene. I don't know what call the scene. A dream sequence? An imaginary scene? A view to what goes on in Bruce's mind? I really can't say. I'm not trying to be funny when I write that. (Yes, my reviews are meant to contain humor. Your mileage may vary).


I'd say "A view to what goes on in Bruce's mind?".


    Quote:
    Bruce says no one gets it. He did what he did - fight Bane - not for vengance or revenge or laughs or a need to fulfill some weird masochistic streak that is based on self-punishment. He did it to help Gotham Girl because she needed help.


Yeah, that was a bit maudlin.


    Quote:
    Remember Psycho Pirate was keeping her calm for reasons I forget and am too lazy to look up.


I don't know either, but based on pages from the issue, it looked like the Joker traumatized her.


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    Couple of problems. First what is that scene. Who is Bruce talking to? Why is his mom in his memories or his thoughts. Who is he telling that he's out to help a girl and not out for revenge.


He's telling himself.


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    I get that we're supposed to get a reminder that Bruce cares about people and that's why Batman exists. I think we're supposed to see that Bruce is real and Batman is the tool he uses to help people. If nothing else a nice change of pace from the "Bats is real, Bruce is the mask" trope. But again, we're told not shown all of this. Problem is that Bruce's actions aren't convincing. Bruce's actions don't show a lot of caring. To me they show his pride. Superman can stop Bane in 10 seconds, but Bruce says no, it has to be me.


I can't get inside the author's head and say what his intention is here, but forgetting about intention, wouldn't it be interesting if Bruce has to convince himself that he's doing all this to help other people when it really is his pride and psychosis?


    Quote:
    And I am a strong believer that action is supposed to reveal character. What do we see in this fight. It's just two people pounding on each other until Bruce gets Bane to drop his guard for a head butt.



    Quote:
    We don't see Bruce out think Bane or out fight Bane. He just head butts him. He didn't dodge Bane, or trap Bane or get Bane to indulge in too much ice cream and get a headache and become vulnerable.


I do prefer more strategy deployed in fights, but getting bane to drop his guard to get in that head butt is something at least.


    Quote:
    Also, as to the Martha, Martha, Martha scene - why Martha as opposed to Thomas as opposed to Thomas and Martha, as opposed to Selina. What is the Martha connection that makes him explain his motives to her.


It's BATMAN V SUPERMAN all over again!


    Quote:
    I mean I think this is in Bruce's head. This is Bruce ultimately talking to himself. Does Bruce have to convince himself that he's a good guy? Well let's talk about that. But that wasn't what was conveyed to us in the previous issues, at least not to me.



    Quote:
    What I got was that Bruce refuses help that would have stopped a blood bath. Those villains Bane beat up were REALLY BEAT UP. Not cool Bruce. You want to help people, then accept help from people. It's not all about you. King may have been trying to show just how far Bruce will go to help someone. But it came across to me as Bruce self-justifying actions that I can only describe as self-centered and vain.



    Quote:
    I mean Selina refuses to pushed away. Bruce pushes everyone else away, but not Selina. There's that. But what does it mean in the long run or in the story itself? Selina knows Bruce too well? Selina won't be bullied? The artists likes drawing a sexy but not sexist Selina? I don't know.



    Quote:
    Or I could be wrong.


Good points, but I'd like to think Bruce is relatively psychotic, which many Batman fans might not appreciate, so the differences between his actions and his intentions illustrate his delusions, depicting my version of Batman. The purely philanthropic Batman is far less interesting to me than the one obsessed with his parents' death to the point of dressing up as a big bat and beating up criminals to gain a sense of justice from the universe when it's just self serving to his psychosis.


Zvelf,

Appreciate your response. I also think you hit the nail on the head. Our Batman preferences are different. I prefer the Steve Englehardt version. In the past, Steve has said Bruce dresses up as Batman not because he is crazy, but because he is super sane. The batsuit has practical applications in the physical and psychological realms. Basically, it scares criminals and it offers protection in terms of privacy (have to protect that secret identity) and against bullets. Back in Batman #1 in 1940, we are told Bruce wears a bulletproof vest.

I find things like Bruce entering the Batcave via a grandfather clock that opens up when Bruce sets the hands to the time of his parents' death eye rolling. Get over it mama's boy.

I also wonder when the hands reach that time normally, does the doop automatically pop open. I have too much time on my hands.

I prefer my notion of Bruce as someone who really does want to help others. Bat is not about exorcising his demons, it's about saving others from one bad day.

But that's me. I do have problems with the holes in plotting, however. I also have the problem that Bane still knows Bruce's identity. I can buy Ra's Al Ghul not telling anyone because of honor for a great foe, etc. But you only get one bite at that apple. Now that Bane is going to be put in prison until he escapes because the guards forgot the lock the door, all Bane has to do to ruin Bats is tell the truth. Bruce Wayne is Batman. The legal implications alone would tie up the Wayne fortune. People would be afraid to go to work because they could end up in the crossfire of villains' revenge against Bruce. Stocks would fall, fortunes lost. The Wayne legacy would be at an end.

That's a lot of revenge to forego because of pride, so I don't buy it when villains keep the heroes' secrets. (Exception. The Joker doesn't care. Steve Englehardt actually made that a plot point. He protects Bats' secrets because protecting those secrets keeps Bats in the game, and that's all that matters to the Joker).

So what does everyone else think?

I could be wrong.


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