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Subj: OK, we just see this completely differently...
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 at 05:31:36 pm EDT
Reply Subj: Re: It's there in black & white...
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 at 04:54:36 pm EDT

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> The Argonaut was controlled "telepathically" thru Tony's Extremis powers. Both armors are being controlled from the same knew what Tony was doing and reacting accordingly.

I may seem to be continually beating this drum but there is simply no way that just because the Argonaut knew when Tony was going to throw the punch it would have still have been able to dodge the blow unless the Armor was fast enough to get out of the way in time... particularly when the fist coming at you can move at 3,500 feet per second. Do you think that as a normal human, if I happened to have Spiderman's 6th sense that means that I can dodge a punch thrown at me by the same Spidey... even if I sensed it coming ?
Sure I would "anticipate where and when the blow coming before he threw it but my body would simply be incapable of moving out of the way in time unless my speed as at the very least, close to that of Spiderman. Simple as that.

> There is literally NO evidence that the second HB armor has any super-speed at all. For example:
> 1) The Hulkbuster required rockets to enhance it's punching speed and power, Extremis (be it standard or Argonaut) do not.

You sure about that ? \:\-D

Check out the scan below of Extremis Tony's battle with Sentry. Notice the flames erupting from Tony's elbow, the same arm that he is using to hit Sentry with ?
Sure looks like a rocket propelled punch to me. \:\-P

> 2) It demonstrated NO ability to dodge any of the Hulk's punches. Both standard Extremis (dodging Mallen and Spider-Man EASILY) and Argonauts (gained upper hand on Namor underwater, avoided FF in air, avoided Iron Man's punches) DEMONSTRATE great speed and agility.

Yet both Spidey and She Hulk have had very little problems tagging Extremis Iron Man whenever they wanted to. Even if you want to discount the She-Hulk example as rubbish from Dan Slott (oops... better not say that... the guy seems to have suddenly become a hero now that he has retconned the nanobot attack. \:\-\) ), Do you really believe that if Extremis IM and Hulk had gone one on one instead that Tony would have been able to just dance around the Hulk secure in the knowledge that Hulk would be nowhere fast enough to hit him ?

> 3) Hulkbuster was unfinished. In Iron Man #18, Tony states he wishes he had more time to finish it.

Nope, not so. Tony specifically said that ever since he learned that when Hulk was shot into space he didn't reach his destination, Tony wished that he had had more time to prepare... full stop. He never said anything about wanting more time to finish the HB or anything like that. Tony could just as easily have been talking about wanting more time to come up with a better plan than the Nanobot stinkeroo or something like that. The statement is simply too general to tie it into anything specific. And yes I know Tony was shown using a torch on the HB armor soon after he made that statement but he could very easily have been putting on the finishing touches to the Armor. There is simply not enough evidence to definitively say what Tony was talking about when he made the statement of wanting more time.

> 4) Hulkbuster did not demonstrate ANY of the Extremis armors other capabilities: Stealth, full-spectrum Repulsor, Mechanical Intuition, Healing (Tony and suit), etc. Isn't it more realistic to surmise that if it doesn't have any of the other Extremis Armor abilities, that it proably doesn't have ANY of them at all, than to assume (even though it's NEVER demonstrated super-speed or reflexes) to assume it has just one of them (speed)? It's like hearing hoofsteps and expecting to see a zebra...when the evidence is leading s to believe that it's just a horse.

Actually its much easier to assume that the HB has speed because we have seen other HB armors (the Argonaut for one) demonstrate great speed. So we know that Tony is capable of building super speed into giant Armors.

>It's most likely a heavy-duty nanite delivery device, designed to let Tony get in close to the Hulk to deliver the silver bullet. Sabotage and betrayal foiled its test run...but that's okay. We all love the Hulk too and don't necessarily want to see him killed in his own mini-series.

Where this argument falls down heavily is the fact (and someone else already pointed it out in this thread) that if that were so, why didn't Tony simply put the nanobots into an adamantium dart, load it into a missile and and then fire a barrage of the things at the Hulk ?
Hulk made no attempt to dodge the plane missiles fired at him so those same missiles could have been adamantium tipped and loaded to the brim with the Nannites.
Could it have been then that Tony put on that Armor because he knew that if perchance the Nanobots failed, he was going to have to finish the job manually and hence had to put on his most powerful Armor to do it ?

Even though the author of the Iron Man entry said that the HB wasn't the most powerful, you continue to point to the handbook...

Even though the Extremis Iron Man armor is shown reacting in ten thousandths of a second, and NONE of the Buster suits operate at anything close to that speed, you continue to say they do...

Even though Tony is still putting the armor (which is in pieces) together in Avengers: Initiative #4, you continue to say it was done...'s pointless to continue. Neither of us is going to convince the other of anything, so at this point I bid you adieu and wish you a good rest of your day.

We'll chat again soon, different day, different argument...but this horse is dead. I think you're wronger than you've ever been...but that's cool. I'm sure you feel the same way \:D

Have a good one, bud. \:\)

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