Comic Battle >> View Post
·
Post By
God Dragon

In Reply To
Maestro

Subj: Hey, Maestro. I'd love to discuss this with you, but...
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 07:56:52 am EDT
Reply Subj: Re: My thoughts on this continuing debate
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 at 03:32:23 pm EDT

Previous Post

> My understanding of the Extremis battle suit is that its undersheath connects directly with Tony's nervous system. That is why its reaction time is virtually instantaneous. The Hulkbuster armor was not designed that way. You argue that it could have been. Maybe it could have, I don't know. But there is evidence staring right at us in the face that it was not--as I said, Tony SAW the Hulk coming at him, WE saw the Hulk reflected in his helmet, and Tony had time to say "Oh Hell", and he still couldn't dodge? If the HB suit had the same reaction time as the Extremis suit, there is NO WAY the Hulk connects on that leap.
>
> And yes, I know the Hulk can leap really fast. But he couldn't have been going too fast for IM to dodge, because of what I stated above. If you can be reflected in someone's faceplate, you are not traveling anywhere near supersonic speed, as some have argued the Hulk was.
>

And as some (mainly me \:\-D ) have pointed out to you... there is simply no way that Hulk not only connects with IM, but pushes him (against the counter force of Tony's very own boot jets mind you) straight into the side of a building with enough force to bring down that same building... unless Hulk himself was traveling at a very high multi-supersonic velocity. Hulk has no rockets on his feet to give him constant propulsion. The only way Hulk manages to cover such vast distances with a single leap is if all his acceleration is front loaded into the leap. By the time Tony saw the reflection in his visor it would already have been too late. Tony's "oh hell" says it all.

> I think these points have been discussed before, in great detail. I am sure you (and others) still disagree with me, and I am sure some (including me) disagree with you.
>
> Personally, I think Greg Pak ignored/did not know about Iron Man's superhuman reflexes and spider-sense, and his rendition of Iron Man's fight with Hulk reflect that. I respect your opinion, but I think you are wrong.
>
> > You wrote:
> >
> > "Why I think the HB armor is slow (I'm talking reaction time and agility, not flight speed)"
> >
> > Firstly I am talking all 3. Flight I will take it that you concede he is no slower. Reaction time - Tony is supposed to have increased reaction time now. As a matter of fact he would have to to have all these super-speed feets he seems to be racking up. Which means he still has that reaction time in the suit. Which seeing as the Extremis upgrade allows him to access and control all kinds of electronic gizmos (including presumably those he built with the intention of controlling them) he should be able to interface with the suit at those same near instantaneous speeds. Which leads us to 3 "agility" by which I presume you mean the ability to move quickly "on the ground". How does Iron Man move in his Extremis suit? Is it Tony's own muscles that make the legs bend at the knees aand his arm cock back to throw a punch? Or is it a case of the mechanics of the suit itself being controlled by Tony which do this and give him the strength to throw a punch as hard as the Thing or at least considerably harder than Tony Stark sans suit? And if that is the case is there any reason to believe that the suits mechanics are slower to react to the thoughts running through Tonys head than his limbs can to the nerve impulses travelling from his brain? Why is it any more difficult to imagine the same can't be said of the Hulk armor?
> > Or does the Extremis armor slow Tony down also? Would he be even faster without it?
> >
> > > First, it was shown in WWH #1 to be slow. After Iron Man fired those incendiary missiles at Hulk, Iron Man flies over the burnt out area. He then SEES the Hulk leaping at him. The Hulk is moving slow enough that we SEE his reflection on Iron Man's face plate. Iron Man even has enough time to mutter, "Oh Hell." When wearing his sleek, Extremis armor, Iron Man has a reaction time of .004 seconds (I think DaveyM posted the scan in this thread). Think about that. A reaction time of .004 seconds. That is computer fast. If Iron Man had been wearing Extremis armor, he would have been gone before the Hulk got even close to him.
> >
> > I addressed this in the posts i linked to before. Please by all means read them.
> > Here it is again
> > http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719074602
> >
> > Second, wearing cumbersome armor makes it more difficult to make use of one's agility. I mean, if you're wearing form-fitting armor, don't you think it's easier to maneuver than if you're wearing a freaking tank? Just LOOK at the Hulkbuster armor. It looks like a box with limbs. Hard to imagine Iron Man dodging or weaving in that contraption.
> >
> > Again my sme objections as before. Peoples explanation as to why its slower "Just look at it". "Is it easier to maneuver in form-fitting armor than wearing a tank?" Shouldn't the Hulk be slow as hell cos he is a big lumbering giant? I think we can all agree that that is not the case when it comes to the case because unlike the "big lumbering iants we may be familiar with in our everyday lives" Hulk has a strength to bodyweight ratio that is close to infinite. The fact that he weighs a ton or so more than Ben Ulrich or whoever is more than offset by the fact that he is a million times stronger. I'm sure you can see how the same arguments apply to IM.
> > At any rate my earlier posts on this are contained in this post.
> > http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719072840
> > hh
> >
> > hh

We already did. You and I discussed this at interminable length some time ago. All of my points, and all of yours, were already made. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Like Epyon, I just don't see how HB had the Extremis armor's reaction time if Tony had time to say "Oh Hell." .004 second reaction time would be FAR more than enough to avoid the Hulk if he had time to say that.

> > My understanding of the Extremis battle suit is that its undersheath connects directly with Tony's nervous system. That is why its reaction time is virtually instantaneous. The Hulkbuster armor was not designed that way. You argue that it could have been. Maybe it could have, I don't know. But there is evidence staring right at us in the face that it was not--as I said, Tony SAW the Hulk coming at him, WE saw the Hulk reflected in his helmet, and Tony had time to say "Oh Hell", and he still couldn't dodge? If the HB suit had the same reaction time as the Extremis suit, there is NO WAY the Hulk connects on that leap.
> >
> > And yes, I know the Hulk can leap really fast. But he couldn't have been going too fast for IM to dodge, because of what I stated above. If you can be reflected in someone's faceplate, you are not traveling anywhere near supersonic speed, as some have argued the Hulk was.
> >
>
> And as some (mainly me \:\-D ) have pointed out to you... there is simply no way that Hulk not only connects with IM, but pushes him (against the counter force of Tony's very own boot jets mind you) straight into the side of a building with enough force to bring down that same building... unless Hulk himself was traveling at a very high multi-supersonic velocity. Hulk has no rockets on his feet to give him constant propulsion. The only way Hulk manages to cover such vast distances with a single leap is if all his acceleration is front loaded into the leap. By the time Tony saw the reflection in his visor it would already have been too late. Tony's "oh hell" says it all.
>
> > I think these points have been discussed before, in great detail. I am sure you (and others) still disagree with me, and I am sure some (including me) disagree with you.
> >
> > Personally, I think Greg Pak ignored/did not know about Iron Man's superhuman reflexes and spider-sense, and his rendition of Iron Man's fight with Hulk reflect that. I respect your opinion, but I think you are wrong.
> >
> > > You wrote:
> > >
> > > "Why I think the HB armor is slow (I'm talking reaction time and agility, not flight speed)"
> > >
> > > Firstly I am talking all 3. Flight I will take it that you concede he is no slower. Reaction time - Tony is supposed to have increased reaction time now. As a matter of fact he would have to to have all these super-speed feets he seems to be racking up. Which means he still has that reaction time in the suit. Which seeing as the Extremis upgrade allows him to access and control all kinds of electronic gizmos (including presumably those he built with the intention of controlling them) he should be able to interface with the suit at those same near instantaneous speeds. Which leads us to 3 "agility" by which I presume you mean the ability to move quickly "on the ground". How does Iron Man move in his Extremis suit? Is it Tony's own muscles that make the legs bend at the knees aand his arm cock back to throw a punch? Or is it a case of the mechanics of the suit itself being controlled by Tony which do this and give him the strength to throw a punch as hard as the Thing or at least considerably harder than Tony Stark sans suit? And if that is the case is there any reason to believe that the suits mechanics are slower to react to the thoughts running through Tonys head than his limbs can to the nerve impulses travelling from his brain? Why is it any more difficult to imagine the same can't be said of the Hulk armor?
> > > Or does the Extremis armor slow Tony down also? Would he be even faster without it?
> > >
> > > > First, it was shown in WWH #1 to be slow. After Iron Man fired those incendiary missiles at Hulk, Iron Man flies over the burnt out area. He then SEES the Hulk leaping at him. The Hulk is moving slow enough that we SEE his reflection on Iron Man's face plate. Iron Man even has enough time to mutter, "Oh Hell." When wearing his sleek, Extremis armor, Iron Man has a reaction time of .004 seconds (I think DaveyM posted the scan in this thread). Think about that. A reaction time of .004 seconds. That is computer fast. If Iron Man had been wearing Extremis armor, he would have been gone before the Hulk got even close to him.
> > >
> > > I addressed this in the posts i linked to before. Please by all means read them.
> > > Here it is again
> > > http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719074602
> > >
> > > Second, wearing cumbersome armor makes it more difficult to make use of one's agility. I mean, if you're wearing form-fitting armor, don't you think it's easier to maneuver than if you're wearing a freaking tank? Just LOOK at the Hulkbuster armor. It looks like a box with limbs. Hard to imagine Iron Man dodging or weaving in that contraption.
> > >
> > > Again my sme objections as before. Peoples explanation as to why its slower "Just look at it". "Is it easier to maneuver in form-fitting armor than wearing a tank?" Shouldn't the Hulk be slow as hell cos he is a big lumbering giant? I think we can all agree that that is not the case when it comes to the case because unlike the "big lumbering iants we may be familiar with in our everyday lives" Hulk has a strength to bodyweight ratio that is close to infinite. The fact that he weighs a ton or so more than Ben Ulrich or whoever is more than offset by the fact that he is a million times stronger. I'm sure you can see how the same arguments apply to IM.
> > > At any rate my earlier posts on this are contained in this post.
> > > http://www.comicboards.com/ironman/view.php?rpl=070719072840
> > > hh
> > >
> > > hh


Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.5 on Windows XP
Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2022 Powermad Software
All the content of these boards Copyright © 1996-2022 by Comicboards/TVShowboards. Software Copyright © 2003-2022 Powermad Software