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Post By
Braugi

In Reply To
Maestro

Subj: Nope...I'd say that NO heraldbuster should be able to completely dismiss Surfer, Morg, etc...
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 05:39:00 pm EDT
Reply Subj: All you're basically saying then that like everything else, there are verying levels in Herald Buster.
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 05:18:55 pm EDT (Viewed 35 times)


wow, and I disagree with a lot of what you say here...

> >
> Thus a top end Herald Buster (Thanos) would be able to dismiss a top end Herald (SS). Likewise a mid level Herald Buster such as "pre" MA Sentry and Rulk (who to be honest I'm leaning toward high end HB but we have to see more from him to be sure) are able to casually own low to mid range Heralds such Terrax and Thor but would have to work a bit harder to defeat the high end Surfer level Heralds.
>
Even now I don't think Thanos can 'dismiss' a top end herald like the Surfer. He'd be the heavy favorite, but not casually dismiss him. Likewise, except for SPECIFIC matchups against weaknesses, the top end of one level should not DISMISS the top end of the next level down. Surfer wouldn't be able to casually dismiss Hercules...he'd have to fight smart and keep his distance, because if he went in and played to Hercules' strengths, he'd lose. Hulk is a special case because Surfer has shown he can drain the Hulks energy, weakening him, and Surfer consistently does that when they fight.

Red Hulk is probably a relatively low end heraldbuster...he's definitively stronger than Thor and Hulk...probably on par with Kurse once amped (to on par with Thor with the belt of strength, NOT after Beyonders second amping), but he's all one dimensional, which means if Thor fought him SMART and kept his distance, he should be able to make it VERY competitive, and might only lose a slight minority (might actually make it an even fight), but Thor doesn't fight like that, so Thor will consistently fight to Rulk's strengths, and thus consistently lose.

Terrax, if anything, leans more towards a high end herald, judging by his performance against WOL Morg, the combined team of Air Walker, Nova, and Firelord, and regular Morg. Even against Surfer he's done OK, but proven himself less versatile. Thor, IMO is a TOP end herald, and has shown himself every bit the peer of the Surfer, on multiple occasions. Superman is a mid tier herald IMO, though his physical stats are overall slightly superior to Thor's.

> Any Herald busters below these levels could quite conceivably be borderline High End Heralds who are "masquerading" as Herald Busters. \:\-\)
>
> > >
> > > > mostly because, for the most part, a typical member of one category is usually NOT going to absolutely destroy a typical member of a category one step below them. Most PM's can be competitive with heralds, or even beat heralds 50% or more if specific matchups favor them.
> > > >
> > > > Immortal Hercules has shown the capacity to fight Firelord evenly, seemed to be at least even with Frankie Raye, and has fought Thor evenly enough times that it clearly illustrates the point.
> > > >
> > > > Classic Magneto, during the days when he was clearly PM was a substantial fight for Thor, and would probably win 2/10 or so against him, the way they usually fought...and Thor would NOT have destroyed him on a consistent basis.
> > > >
> > > > Likewise, most high end streets have proven substantial threats to meta level opposition...Punisher was a VERY real threat to Wolverine, for instance.
> > > >
> > > > Heralds should LOSE to 'heraldbusters', but might well be able to put up a good fight and hold their own for a while. For instance, while I would put the Destroyer armor in the heraldbuster/teambuster category, Thor HAS shown the capacity to fight it for a substantial amount of time and hold his own. Even the Thing has a good showing against it! The guys that heralds CAN beat, but are the definate underdog against are really what we're looking for...guys like Jurgens' Mangog are perfect...Thor was beaten consistently, but showed he DOES have the capacity to pull an upset.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I understand what you're saying and I think thats why Amor Fati put in the "without much effort" claus into his definition of Herald busters being able to defeat Herald classes. So if the Herald Buster defeats the Herald but its a good fight where you could see that the Herald could steal a couple victories of his own in a "best of 10" match up, then that Herald Buster's ranking is suspect. but if we see the Herald Buster owning the Herald in such a way that you get the sense he could have killed the Herald at any time had he wanted to... that even the thought of a rematch is laughable... thats a Herald Buster. Just my opinion.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ... which is being able to either annihilate a genuine Herald class with little effort or being able to fight groups of Heralds or Prime Metas. So tell me... what does being unable to defeat the Silver Surfer have to do with the definitions above seeing as there are all types and levels of Herald classes ?
> > > > >
Because all the heralds are 'in the same ballpark', even though there is, of necessity, some variation in the power level. The disparity within a power level can't be TOO great, or the entire classification system breaks down and/or becomes useless. Of course, its somewhat subjective, but high end characters of one level are pretty universally a threat to high end characters of the next level up...heck, Cyclops may not even be a top end meta, but he certainly poses a clear risk to Ms. Marvel and/or Thunderstrike, who are at the top end of the EM range. Spider Man is about a mid tier EM and certainly poses a risk to most PM's and, on his better showings, has beaten multiple herald level opponents. The Thing has good fights against the Hulk, Hercules, and others, and those guys are at the top of the PM range, while he's near the top of the EM range. He's a significant THREAT.

If the next level up from herald means that Surfer, Thor, et. al. pose NO threat so a significant number of the people in that category, then they're too powerful to fit into the current system as being one level up from the herald level.


> > > > > Its with those definitions in mind that I chose my list.
> > > > >
> > >
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