Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Comic Battle >> View Post
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Post By
zvelf

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Aang

Member Since: Sat Jun 26, 2010
Posts: 1,369
Subj: Re: Ignore anything that contradicts you
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 at 09:21:00 pm EST (Viewed 150 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Ignore anything that contradicts you
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 at 07:36:29 pm EST (Viewed 124 times)



    Quote:

      Quote:
      That you think I was trying to cast doubt on the result of the fight is a failure on your part to comprehend the point I was making. That point is that the outcome of one fight is not indicative of the outcome of all fights between two characters. Busiek is clearly trying to make the same point when he showed Thor's confidence in beating Superman in a rematch, by showing Superman being awed by Mjolnir's power, and by Superman stating that Thor was his toughest opponent ever.


    Whenever did I say that Superman will win every time?


BK Ray implied that in saying Superman has won every time they've fought, and you were agreeing with him.


    Quote:
    I'm saying Supes will more thank likely win in a fight as depicted in that comic.  I was also agreeing with BK Ray that the published comic with an established result trumps fan opinion. As simple as that. Supes was awed by Mjolnir, fine. But Supes also beat Thor with Mjolnir and even stopping a full swing with one hand before knocking Thor out. You say Thor was confident he'll win next time. Whatever, I'll buy that if they actually show it in a story. Again, the result of the fight trumps the anecdotes you point out, at least to me they do.


This only shows that you pick and choose what you want to hold up as valid in the comics. For you, the result of the fight is fine, but something else in the same comic story you dismiss. Why would Busiek write this awkward scene this way if not as an excuse to point out Thor's confidence while saying he's taken Superman's measure - basically a way to say that Thor could very well win in another fight. You keep saying that I'm offering my points to dismiss the result of the actual fight when that's not my point at all, which I've already pointed out to you. It's like you want to argue against a straw argument.


    Quote:

      Quote:
      Furthermore, I question how much you really do subscribe to the comic's author overriding any non-writer's opinion. For example, the Silver Surfer was once beaten by getting hit with a brick. Do you think the Silver Surfer's durability can be overcome by a brick?
    Not if the same writer has the character surviving supernova, flying into suns etc. There is a modicum of reason that I choose to believe the majority of the showings far outweigh that outlier showing. What I saw in JLA/Avengers was Superman eventually overcoming Thor is a fair fight. Why reason would I believe a non-writer's opinion overruling that? Besides, it's not just one writer's decision, it is backed by the editorial staff and no doubt was cleared by both parties. I do agree with Vidar that DC probably wouldn't have agreed to have Supes lose but the fact of the matter is that Marvel agreed that he wouldn't. That said, I just don't see evidence in that story that would say Superman doesn't deserve to be the #1 powerhouse choice in the OP's post, sorry.

Again, you pick and choose what you want from the comics because you'd like Surfer to be more powerful than a brick. I think I'd be obtuse if I went around insisting that the Silver Surfer's durability can't take getting hit by a brick and then pointed out to you that anything you say to the contrary is wrong because what the writer wrote is worth 1000 times more than your opinion. Likewise, non-writers can see evidence that Thor has beaten opponents with Superman's same power set numerous times from Gladiator to Hyperion and draw the conclusion that one fight doesn't trump all available evidence. Thor beat Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) in a non-voted fight in a previous Marvel-DC crossover, and he's practically a Superman clone who has fought Superman to a draw numerous times over the decades and shown equal strength and equal durability. So you can say that this one fight is the only one that matters and that no non-writer's opinion matters, but by your same logic, well, that Surfer sure can't take a brick.





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