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Post By
Bucky

In Reply To
BaldurMight

Subj: Re: punisher=nutty vigilante
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 at 08:43:16 pm EST
Reply Subj: punisher=nutty vigilante
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 at 01:40:29 pm EST

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> One man's perspective, supported in Multi-User Dungeons/Domains and coherent therein...
>
> Negative times negative equals positive. Killing villains is positive.
>
> Positive times positive equals positive. Rescuing heroes or innocents (since innocents contribute to society by their work) is positive.
>
> Negative times positive equals negative. Killing heroes or innocents is negative.
>
> Positive times negative equals negative. Rescuing villains is negative.
>
> The Punisher is right and Spider-Man is wrong. Mathematically, at least.
>
> Just sayin'. \:\)
>
that's if you trust the punisher's moral judgement. if you think the punisher has an absolutely correct and unwavering moral compass and his punishments are always "just" (fit the crime and prevent future crimes) then more power to you, but to me the punisher is a nut, he doesn't always kill to protect innocents, he "punishes," oftentimes assassinating "bad guys" who aren't currently threatening anyone. his position would be that they deserve it, but that's a pretty big burden to take on. Spiderman turns the criminals he catches over to the judicial system, he and the punisher both protect innocents, but spiderman doesn't go past that, heck neither does wolverine frankly wolverine just uses lethal methods to protect innocents. Punisher has the, no offense, insane notion that his mission goes beyond that and that he has a responsibility to bring his brand of eye for an eye justice to those he deals with cutting through the red tape of bureaucracy. But what if he doesn't have all the facts? What if he "executues" someone who's innocent of the crimes that the Punisher believes him responsible for?

The most interesting comparison would be batman though who works in a city with a justice system thats obviously completely and utterly faulty and is constantly allowing the Joker back onto the streets. Frankly a man who has and continues to kill hundreds of people would never be allowed to live, whatever half-baked insanity pleas allow him to keep living and operating (they have lobotomies in mental hospitals I believe, or at least they used to for the incorrigiably dangerous.) It is what it is though, how can batman allow the joker to live when he cant stop him from killing people and the justice system can't either? But batman would say that its not his call to administer justice, and i think he's right. Police officers don't execute criminals on the spot even if they obviously commited murder and thats a good system.
>
> Bucky
>

> ...Punisher has the, no offense, insane notion that his mission goes beyond that and that he has a responsibility to bring his brand of eye for an eye justice to those he deals with cutting through the red tape of bureaucracy. But what if he doesn't have all the facts? What if he "executues" someone who's innocent of the crimes that the Punisher believes him responsible for?


An excellent premise for a story arc! Ennis should write that! \:\)

I would expect the Punisher to try to balance the scales somehow. Not by killing but by rescuing. Sort of the Spider-Man/Uncle Ben scenario but more extreme and more numerically precise.

Remember - it's math. It's not personal. If you wrongly kill Curly but then rescue Larry & Moe, you've produced a net positive. Curly's ghost might haunt you but Larry and Moe might go to church and light candles in your honor. Unless they really miss Curly - in which case they might spit in one of the candles. So maybe it all hinges on Shemp. Or maybe you rescue Abbott and Costello too for good measure. They never met Curly. So now your net positive is secure. Heck, rescue Laurel and Hardy while you're at it. At that point you're beyond safe. You can go back to killing.


> The most interesting comparison would be batman though who works in a city with a justice system thats obviously completely and utterly faulty and is constantly allowing the Joker back onto the streets. Frankly a man who has and continues to kill hundreds of people would never be allowed to live, whatever half-baked insanity pleas allow him to keep living and operating (they have lobotomies in mental hospitals I believe, or at least they used to for the incorrigiably dangerous.) It is what it is though, how can batman allow the joker to live when he cant stop him from killing people and the justice system can't either? But batman would say that its not his call to administer justice, and i think he's right. Police officers don't execute criminals on the spot even if they obviously commited murder and thats a good system.


At what point is Batman to blame for every victim the Joker kills? I say we're past that point. But it isn't just Batman who's to blame. We are now at the point where the entire city of Gotham should hunt down the Joker and put him to death in cold blood. It is offensive to all decency that the Joker still lives.

Hmm... this would make a good story! \:\)

"Last Laugh."


Bucky



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