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Post By
Tiger Shark

In Reply To

Subj: I Agree 100%
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 02:24:49 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: Full Agree About Hank Pym & Jarvis [SPOILERS]
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 02:07:20 pm EST

Previous Post

> > Yes, Carol's stupid, inane remark about Hank Pym made no sense--these people are supposed to be longtime friends and collegues who have fought the baddest of the bad in life-and-death struggles, who would die for each other. So the dissing is completely inappropriate.
> Colleagues, yes, comrades in arms, yes, " die for each other " yes, friends probably not. Even historically, the Avengers has been the most professional, mission-focused, by-the-book superhero team in the Marvel Universe, one which is a tool devoted to getting the job done. Being an Avenger means that you're devoted to saving lives, not making friends. Especially nowadays, with the militarization of the superhero team.
> If it were the Fantastic Four, this sort of remark would be uncalled for because members of that team are family. Even if it were the X-Men, it wouldn't fly because that team is organized so that the members become extended family in their struggle against the power. But the Avengers? The nature of that organization is such that it doesn't care if you like or loathe your teammates, as long as you can work with them on the battlefield. The fact that friendships and relationships have formed on the Avengers is incidental to the nature of the group.

The only thing I'd note in response to this is that I don't think such a comment occurring in X-Men would be any more out of place there than it would be in Avengers. Any extended family relationships that occur in X-Men are as equally incidental to their primary 'mission statement' as ones that develop in Avengers. On a long enough timeline, any semi-consistent grouping of characters, no matter the premise of the gathering, can believably evolve into a de facto family type of group.

The X-Men, like the Avengers, are still a group of individuals that have liked and loathed each other yet still been able to get the job done on the battlefield. The main difference between the two, to me (aside from the series premise, of course), is that there can at times be a greater emphasis on the interpersonal bonds in X-Men than in Avengers, which can be attributed mainly to their consistency on who's in the team (well, when there was one team, anyway).

> I should also note that Carol's likely referring to the infamous divorce of Hank and Jan, since he was a domestic abuser and she's a feminist, so it doesn't seem particularly jarring for her not to like him.

The traditional Avengers have been friends for the most part--we know that Moondragon isn't cosy with anyone on the team, that Crystal, Pietro, Sersi, and Dane had their problems, Mantis was largely self-serving back in the day, and there has been heavy tension between T'Challa and IM--but basically these are people who known one another fairly well and care about one another.

If they run into one another on the street, they're happy to see one another. And if one of them walks into the mansion/tower, the others say hello. There were plenty of times 'in the old days' when we saw them sitting around, having tea together and chatting.

Let's not forget that for many of the 'early' Avengers, their realtionships are of many years' duration, and that includes [dead or alive] Cap, IM, Thor, Hank, Jan, Hawkeye, the Vision, the Scarlet Witch, Pietro, T'Challa, Wonder Man, Natasha, Hercules, and others, including Carol and She Hulk, who came a bit later.

Now, they've not all had smooth relations during the periods in which they've known one another, especially Pietro, and we know that Carol felt betrayed when she went wherever she went with whoever that guy was, but for most it's been fairly smooth sailing.

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