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Post By
Nitz the Bloody

In Reply To
Jase

Subj: Re: Full Agree About Hank Pym & Jarvis [SPOILERS]
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 03:25:26 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: Full Agree About Hank Pym & Jarvis [SPOILERS]
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 02:07:20 pm EST

Previous Post

>
> > Yes, Carol's stupid, inane remark about Hank Pym made no sense--these people are supposed to be longtime friends and collegues who have fought the baddest of the bad in life-and-death struggles, who would die for each other. So the dissing is completely inappropriate.
>
> Colleagues, yes, comrades in arms, yes, " die for each other " yes, friends probably not. Even historically, the Avengers has been the most professional, mission-focused, by-the-book superhero team in the Marvel Universe, one which is a tool devoted to getting the job done. Being an Avenger means that you're devoted to saving lives, not making friends. Especially nowadays, with the militarization of the superhero team.
>
> If it were the Fantastic Four, this sort of remark would be uncalled for because members of that team are family. Even if it were the X-Men, it wouldn't fly because that team is organized so that the members become extended family in their struggle against the power. But the Avengers? The nature of that organization is such that it doesn't care if you like or loathe your teammates, as long as you can work with them on the battlefield. The fact that friendships and relationships have formed on the Avengers is incidental to the nature of the group.
>

The only thing I'd note in response to this is that I don't think such a comment occurring in X-Men would be any more out of place there than it would be in Avengers. Any extended family relationships that occur in X-Men are as equally incidental to their primary 'mission statement' as ones that develop in Avengers. On a long enough timeline, any semi-consistent grouping of characters, no matter the premise of the gathering, can believably evolve into a de facto family type of group.

The X-Men, like the Avengers, are still a group of individuals that have liked and loathed each other yet still been able to get the job done on the battlefield. The main difference between the two, to me (aside from the series premise, of course), is that there can at times be a greater emphasis on the interpersonal bonds in X-Men than in Avengers, which can be attributed mainly to their consistency on who's in the team (well, when there was one team, anyway).

> I should also note that Carol's likely referring to the infamous divorce of Hank and Jan, since he was a domestic abuser and she's a feminist, so it doesn't seem particularly jarring for her not to like him.


> The only thing I'd note in response to this is that I don't think such a comment occurring in X-Men would be any more out of place there than it would be in Avengers. Any extended family relationships that occur in X-Men are as equally incidental to their primary 'mission statement' as ones that develop in Avengers. On a long enough timeline, any semi-consistent grouping of characters, no matter the premise of the gathering, can believably evolve into a de facto family type of group.

I think that the climate of the X-Men is more condusive to friendship than the climate of the Avengers, because there's more than just shared experience, interests, attraction, etc. the two have in common uniting them. For one, every member of the X-Men is a mutant, part of a persecuted minority, so they have a history of being the other in common. For another, they're working towards the common goal of making a more tolerant and unified world, a dynamic which starts at " home " ( I.E. relationships within the Xavier mansion ). Finally, the fact that the X-Men are a persecuted minority means that they really can't develop lives outside their organization, so the group is a team of effective outlaws banded together for survival as opposed to a volunteer organization.

The X-Men function as a support group, a refugee shelter, and a minority movement. The Avengers, on the other hand, are just an organization. Some members of have been on the team long enough do connect, but aside from being superheroes on the same mission, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of context for them to be good friends.

> The X-Men, like the Avengers, are still a group of individuals that have liked and loathed each other yet still been able to get the job done on the battlefield. The main difference between the two, to me (aside from the series premise, of course), is that there can at times be a greater emphasis on the interpersonal bonds in X-Men than in Avengers, which can be attributed mainly to their consistency on who's in the team (well, when there was one team, anyway).

Unfortunately, the friendships between the X-Men have kind of been forgotten over the years, mostly due to the way the members are so thinly spread apart. Aside from key relationships, mostly romantic ones, you don't really see stuff involving characters bonding over any outside activity. Which is a shame, because that was one of the best parts of the book.


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