Marvel Universe >> View Post
·
Post By
Jase

In Reply To
Nitz the Bloody

Subj: Re: Full Agree About Hank Pym & Jarvis [SPOILERS]
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 at 11:53:40 am CST
Reply Subj: Re: Full Agree About Hank Pym & Jarvis [SPOILERS]
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 at 02:25:26 pm CST

Previous Post


> The only thing I'd note in response to this is that I don't think such a comment occurring in X-Men would be any more out of place there than it would be in Avengers. Any extended family relationships that occur in X-Men are as equally incidental to their primary 'mission statement' as ones that develop in Avengers. On a long enough timeline, any semi-consistent grouping of characters, no matter the premise of the gathering, can believably evolve into a de facto family type of group.

I think that the climate of the X-Men is more condusive to friendship than the climate of the Avengers, because there's more than just shared experience, interests, attraction, etc. the two have in common uniting them. For one, every member of the X-Men is a mutant, part of a persecuted minority, so they have a history of being the other in common. For another, they're working towards the common goal of making a more tolerant and unified world, a dynamic which starts at " home " ( I.E. relationships within the Xavier mansion ). Finally, the fact that the X-Men are a persecuted minority means that they really can't develop lives outside their organization, so the group is a team of effective outlaws banded together for survival as opposed to a volunteer organization.

The X-Men function as a support group, a refugee shelter, and a minority movement. The Avengers, on the other hand, are just an organization. Some members of have been on the team long enough do connect, but aside from being superheroes on the same mission, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of context for them to be good friends.

> The X-Men, like the Avengers, are still a group of individuals that have liked and loathed each other yet still been able to get the job done on the battlefield. The main difference between the two, to me (aside from the series premise, of course), is that there can at times be a greater emphasis on the interpersonal bonds in X-Men than in Avengers, which can be attributed mainly to their consistency on who's in the team (well, when there was one team, anyway).

Unfortunately, the friendships between the X-Men have kind of been forgotten over the years, mostly due to the way the members are so thinly spread apart. Aside from key relationships, mostly romantic ones, you don't really see stuff involving characters bonding over any outside activity. Which is a shame, because that was one of the best parts of the book.

>
> > The only thing I'd note in response to this is that I don't think such a comment occurring in X-Men would be any more out of place there than it would be in Avengers. Any extended family relationships that occur in X-Men are as equally incidental to their primary 'mission statement' as ones that develop in Avengers. On a long enough timeline, any semi-consistent grouping of characters, no matter the premise of the gathering, can believably evolve into a de facto family type of group.
>
> I think that the climate of the X-Men is more condusive to friendship than the climate of the Avengers, because there's more than just shared experience, interests, attraction, etc. the two have in common uniting them. For one, every member of the X-Men is a mutant, part of a persecuted minority, so they have a history of being the other in common.

Now see, to me, that seems like the type of environment that could just as easily breed contempt just as much as it would solidarity, primarily because they are forced together more by circumstance than choice. That's why you can easier see the X-Men simply learning to have to deal with, say, a Wolverine outburst where he regularly threatens bodily harm on a teammate because they have little else choice, whereas the Avengers on the other hand don't really have to put up with that kind of behavior. They seem more likely to foster camaraderie precisely because they are not so much bound together as willfully assembling.

>For another, they're working towards the common goal of making a more tolerant and unified world, a dynamic which starts at " home " ( I.E. relationships within the Xavier mansion ). Finally, the fact that the X-Men are a persecuted minority means that they really can't develop lives outside their organization, so the group is a team of effective outlaws banded together for survival as opposed to a volunteer organization.
>

I think you've just delineated for me why I ultimately prefer the Avengers to the X-Men. One organization is just sort of a default result of the state of the world they're in while the other while the other makes a more independent choice to do something about it.

> The X-Men function as a support group, a refugee shelter, and a minority movement. The Avengers, on the other hand, are just an organization. Some members of have been on the team long enough do connect, but aside from being superheroes on the same mission, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of context for them to be good friends.
>

Sure there is. The same way anyone does - people are inherently social creatures and look for others whom they can identify with on some level. A lot of times, it simply boils down to how conducive is the environment for developing such a bond. While I can see how the threat of imminent extinction and having an entire world that fears and hates you can force a cramped group of outcasts to develop into a family unit, the Avengers team dynamics also foster close communication and teamwork to an equal, albeit different, degree. I personally think the amount of genuine friendships that have arisen out of the Avengers is a testament to that. Captain America/Hawkeye, Wonder Man/Beast, Black Knight/Hercules, Captain America/Iron Man, Iron Man/Thor, Captain America/Black Panther, Namor/Hercules, and more, IMO, they're just as rich as the ones that have come about in X-Men.

Perhaps a different way of putting my point might be in an analogy. It might be the difference between the unpopular kids in school all hanging out because they have nowhere else to go(the X-Men), versus the school football team(the Avengers). It's no more out of place for genuine friendships and emotional attachment to form in one than in the other, IMO.

Still, some x-cellent points on your part, though.

> > The X-Men, like the Avengers, are still a group of individuals that have liked and loathed each other yet still been able to get the job done on the battlefield. The main difference between the two, to me (aside from the series premise, of course), is that there can at times be a greater emphasis on the interpersonal bonds in X-Men than in Avengers, which can be attributed mainly to their consistency on who's in the team (well, when there was one team, anyway).
>
> Unfortunately, the friendships between the X-Men have kind of been forgotten over the years, mostly due to the way the members are so thinly spread apart.

Sad, but true. I can't remember the last time I got the vibe that Kurt Wagner and Logan were friends because they genuinely enjoyed each other's company(and both liked beer! \:D ), and not just because it's canon.

>Aside from key relationships, mostly romantic ones, you don't really see stuff involving characters bonding over any outside activity. Which is a shame, because that was one of the best parts of the book.

I agree completely. Partly why I think Peter David taking over an X-Men title is long overdue since he used to do a pretty decent job of it over in X-Factor.





Posted with Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.1 on Windows XP
Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2022 Powermad Software
All the content of these boards Copyright © 1996-2022 by Comicboards/TVShowboards. Software Copyright © 2003-2022 Powermad Software