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Post By
mtyoung

In Reply To
Jared

Subj: Re: What would your ideal Marvel be?
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 04:55:04 pm EDT
Reply Subj: What would your ideal Marvel be?
Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 01:15:59 am EDT

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We've all been critical of Joe Q, Bendis, JMS, and the like (and I'm no less guilty, I admit), but the thing is about criticism is that sometimes critics ought to put up or shut up.

So, if you were running Marvel, how would you run things? Bear in mind that this is ideal, and doesn't necessarily reflect the realities of the comics industry-I suppose it's as much about your ideal MU as anything else.

As for the way I'd handle it...

1) Decentralized storytelling. Characters don't need to continually guest star in each others' titles. If the writer on Spider-Man wants to keep Peter in the Spider-Ghetto, focussing only on Peter Parker and his supporting cast, he's free to do so. If a writer doesn't want the Avengers ever dealing with the X-Men, fine. If the Hulk never crosses paths with Wolverine as long as the writer doesn't want it, great.

Bear in mind, of course, that this only applies to certain characters, most notably the ones with titles. Iron Man may never interact with the Black Panther, but they can both be struggling against A.I.M., for example. Many of the familiar traits of the Marvel Universe-things like Vibranium, SHIELD, Atlantis, gamma radiation, the Mindscape, etc., would all be freely available for use, which shows that, even though there isn't always a plethora of guest stars and crossovers, there's still a lot of common ground. Someone like the Kingpin or the Red Skull, since they're not the focus of an ongoing title, could just as easily be used by different writers without difficulty. Kingpin might have some intrigues going against Daredevil at the very same time he's manipulating Sleepwalker to do something else.

In a nutshell, it basically means to keep the guest appearances and mega-crossovers at a minimum, and let writers decide if they want their characters to team up, fight, or whatever. In Lorendiac's Superhero Writings, Continuity of Isolation would be important, although writers could just as easily have their characters team up or whatever if they agreed on it beforehand.

2) Hands-off editorial control: What this means, basically, is few if any editorial mandated mega-events. Storylines like Maxmimum Carnage and Civil War probably wouldn't happen much if at all, going for things that have a more limited impact, like Acts of Vengeance. Inferno wouldn't require that Spider-Man put his monthly thrashing of Green Goblin on hold just so he can fight demons, for example.

Editorial would only intervene if writers were doing things that would drastically alter the very concept or nature of the character, or if it was so grossly out of character that it all but amounts to self-destruction. I've made it pretty clear over at the spider-forums what I'd put the brakes on, so I won't repeat it here. Another example would be, for instance, turning Hank Pym into a wife-beater; that would never happen on my watch. Lorendiac identifies this as Continuity of Theme or Tone.

I freely admit I'd also put the kibosh on anything that seems too Women-in-Refrigerators.

3) Organic storytelling, both in individual books and as a whole: Something like Civil War would only occur if the line as a whole was in some sort of serious trouble, or if the whole thing was stagnant. Smaller-scale events can happen all the time, of course, but these should be things that only affect a specific title or series of titles, instead of affecting the whole universe, as House of M and Civil War have done.

Same thing for individual stories-let the characters develop more slowly and gradually, instead of injecting all these radical changes one after another. The Spider-Marriage was built up over a few years, and when it finally happened, it was a natural outcome. Jim Rhodes had been developed for years in the Iron Man series, and so when Tony Stark took a hiatus to deal with his alcoholism, it was only natural that Rhodey would fill in for him until he got his head together, and could otherwise pinch-hit in the armor when necessary, such as if Iron Man and Stark needed to be seen at the same time. Portal had been shown to be experienced with the Darkhawk armor and his relationship with Chris Powell had been developed from almost the beginning, so when Chris was indisposed, Charles Little Sky could step up to the plate.

Turning Peter Parker into a teacher would be a natural growth of his interest in science and his previous experience-he was a lecturer at ESU-and would offer a way to expand the supporting cast with his students. The Professor Hulk could be seen as a way to help Banner get a grip on his life and the multiple personalities of the Hulk. All these things work out great-unlike some things I'm sure we can all mention.

Well, that would be my ideal version of Marvel. What's yours?

> We've all been critical of Joe Q, Bendis, JMS, and the like (and I'm no less guilty, I admit), but the thing is about criticism is that sometimes critics ought to put up or shut up.
>
> So, if you were running Marvel, how would you run things? Bear in mind that this is ideal, and doesn't necessarily reflect the realities of the comics industry-I suppose it's as much about your ideal MU as anything else.
>
> As for the way I'd handle it...
>
> 1) Decentralized storytelling. Characters don't need to continually guest star in each others' titles. If the writer on Spider-Man wants to keep Peter in the Spider-Ghetto, focussing only on Peter Parker and his supporting cast, he's free to do so. If a writer doesn't want the Avengers ever dealing with the X-Men, fine. If the Hulk never crosses paths with Wolverine as long as the writer doesn't want it, great.
>
> Bear in mind, of course, that this only applies to certain characters, most notably the ones with titles. Iron Man may never interact with the Black Panther, but they can both be struggling against A.I.M., for example. Many of the familiar traits of the Marvel Universe-things like Vibranium, SHIELD, Atlantis, gamma radiation, the Mindscape, etc., would all be freely available for use, which shows that, even though there isn't always a plethora of guest stars and crossovers, there's still a lot of common ground. Someone like the Kingpin or the Red Skull, since they're not the focus of an ongoing title, could just as easily be used by different writers without difficulty. Kingpin might have some intrigues going against Daredevil at the very same time he's manipulating Sleepwalker to do something else.
>
> In a nutshell, it basically means to keep the guest appearances and mega-crossovers at a minimum, and let writers decide if they want their characters to team up, fight, or whatever. In Lorendiac's Superhero Writings, Continuity of Isolation would be important, although writers could just as easily have their characters team up or whatever if they agreed on it beforehand.

I kinda understand where you are coming from, but are you saying that writers are forced to enter into the events and have other characters crossover? I do not beleive that at all. I dont think Marvel is forcing the writers of Namor to have Venom or Wolverine in the mini, or making Hudlin have the FF in Black Panther. I think its because the writers want to do these things.

> 2) Hands-off editorial control: What this means, basically, is few if any editorial mandated mega-events. Storylines like Maxmimum Carnage and Civil War probably wouldn't happen much if at all, going for things that have a more limited impact, like Acts of Vengeance. Inferno wouldn't require that Spider-Man put his monthly thrashing of Green Goblin on hold just so he can fight demons, for example.

Once again, Marvel editors didnt create Civil War, it was the creation of several writers (mostly Millar and Bendis). And I think if a writer wanted to ignore the event completely, (such as Brubaker did with Daredevil, the X-writers did with the X-Men) then they can. I find it hard to beleive that the editors are saying to the writers, do these crossovers or you are fired.

> I freely admit I'd also put the kibosh on anything that seems too Women-in-Refrigerators.

I completely agree there. Can anyone really name an (American) black X-Man?

> 3) Organic storytelling, both in individual books and as a whole: Something like Civil War would only occur if the line as a whole was in some sort of serious trouble, or if the whole thing was stagnant. Smaller-scale events can happen all the time, of course, but these should be things that only affect a specific title or series of titles, instead of affecting the whole universe, as House of M and Civil War have done.

I know this is a common complaint, but I don't really see House of M and Civil War as company wide events. In both, there were a significant titles that did nothing to do with these events. But then again, I guess I am comparing this statement to what DC did with their events, where every title literally had something to do with Infinite Crisis.

I also liked the fact that even if characters played a part in these events, Marvel turned out minis instead, such as House of M minis of Iron Man, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, of Civil War with X-Men, and the various one-shots. But I do wish there was a reasoning for which titles got the seperate mini and which were involved in the ongoing titles.

But overall, you really went with the ideal Marvel instead of a practical one. But still some great ideas.

As for me:

Minority Development: An ongoing for an American Black character, a woman, and an hispanic. I'm not saying that they should instantly get a series from the beginning, but that Marvel should create and/or develop these characters so that they can support their own ongoing. Set the time table for 5 years. The markets for these titles would be their respective minority groups, but would not exclude the white males either. And at least try to get a woman writing the woman comic, a black man writing the black man comic.

Heroes for Hire: Luke Cage and Iron Fist. Would be a mix between the old Heroes for Hire comic and Marvel Team Up. Each story would have Luke and Danny teaming up with another duo to face some villians within at Marvel Universe context. This would be the comic you would give to someone to introduce them to the Marvel Universe. For instance, the fist story could be Danny and Luke teaming up with Spider-Man and Wolverine to fight Doctor Octopus and Magneto in the Savage Land.

Reduction of titles: Two main team X-Men books instead of three. Two main Spider-Man books a month instead of three.

Wolverine: One X-Man team, One Avengers team, One Ongoing. Cancel Origins and replace it with a series of miniseries. Each mini would have a different artist and be set in a different time period. For example, get a Team X mini by Texeria, a WWII mini with Joe Kubert, etc.

Ongoing Trials: Before any ongoing is created, there will have to be some build up to it. If its a new character, create a mini first to see how it does. If it does well, give it an ongoing with a guranteed run of 12 issues. Promote the book to. Have the character guess star in another title to get interest created. Offer the first issue free online.

Ultimate Marvel: Cancel the line. USM is the only good point, whose talent could be better served elsewhere.




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