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Post By
Make Mine Mar-Vell

In Reply To
Stuart

Subj: Re: In What ways were the Original Handbooks Incorrect?
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 08:10:14 pm EST
Reply Subj: Re: In What ways were the Original Handbooks Incorrect?
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 07:59:25 pm EST

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> > Marvels 1980s Handbooks set a benchmark in classification and guidebooks for the medium but I hope you can help me out by telling me in what ways did they get certain facts wrong?
> > I'm familiar with their reasoning Gladiator employed Shi'ar tech to help perform his feats (Not!) but what else did they in fact 'make up' or was simply untrue at the time?

Stuff they "made up" wasn't untrue - that'd be new info. But they did contain errors on occasion, such as the Adamantium in Cap's shield example mentioned below. New stuff wasn't wrong, it's only when they inadvertently contradicted established stuff that it was an error (deliberately contradicting wouldn't have been an error, as part of the remit was clarifying continuity conflicts, so the handbooks could override what was seen in a story, so long as it was deliberate retcon).

They did contain errors, something hard to completely avoid in such an in-depth reference work, and they acknowledged these and listed corrections.
>
> The biggy was that Captain America's Shield contained Adamantium.

Yup, that's an error, though I suspect the handbook propagated it, rather than creating it.

>There are a few wrong real names in some entries, most notably the original Handbook's entries for the Squadron Supreme. (Largely because they had been made up for that handbook, and would be changed before Gruenwald's awesome miniseries.)

See above - those names weren't errors. If they got changed later, that's a retcon - and the only one I recall being changed was Power Princess, and even there it was shown that the name the handbook gave had been an alias she had used. That's no more an error than one handbook listing Spider-Man as Peter Parker, only for a subsequent story to retcon in the idea that Peter Parker was a fake identity used by Bob Cratchitt.

> A few relatives were left out.

If they were relatives already known of at the time, that's an error, though only of ommission. If the relatives didn't turn up until later, that's simply that new information came to light later.
> No first appearance entries prior to FF #1.

That wasn't an error. They made a conscious choice not to list Golden Age stuff, as at that point much of it wasn't confirmed as being in continuity - entries for Golden Age characters like Namor therefore listed "First Modern Appearance." If they'd said just "First Appearance" it would have been wrong, but that Modern bit is the proof they didn't make a mistake. A lot more Golden Age stuff is now confirmed as being in continuity, so the current handbooks no longer use that clarification, and instead try to list the historical first appearance, no matter when it was.

> > > Marvels 1980s Handbooks set a benchmark in classification and guidebooks for the medium but I hope you can help me out by telling me in what ways did they get certain facts wrong?
> > > I'm familiar with their reasoning Gladiator employed Shi'ar tech to help perform his feats (Not!) but what else did they in fact 'make up' or was simply untrue at the time?
>
> Stuff they "made up" wasn't untrue - that'd be new info. But they did contain errors on occasion, such as the Adamantium in Cap's shield example mentioned below. New stuff wasn't wrong, it's only when they inadvertently contradicted established stuff that it was an error (deliberately contradicting wouldn't have been an error, as part of the remit was clarifying continuity conflicts, so the handbooks could override what was seen in a story, so long as it was deliberate retcon).
>
> They did contain errors, something hard to completely avoid in such an in-depth reference work, and they acknowledged these and listed corrections.
> >
> > The biggy was that Captain America's Shield contained Adamantium.
>
> Yup, that's an error, though I suspect the handbook propagated it, rather than creating it.
>
> >There are a few wrong real names in some entries, most notably the original Handbook's entries for the Squadron Supreme. (Largely because they had been made up for that handbook, and would be changed before Gruenwald's awesome miniseries.)
>
> See above - those names weren't errors. If they got changed later, that's a retcon - and the only one I recall being changed was Power Princess, and even there it was shown that the name the handbook gave had been an alias she had used. That's no more an error than one handbook listing Spider-Man as Peter Parker, only for a subsequent story to retcon in the idea that Peter Parker was a fake identity used by Bob Cratchitt.
>
> > A few relatives were left out.
>
> If they were relatives already known of at the time, that's an error, though only of ommission. If the relatives didn't turn up until later, that's simply that new information came to light later.
> > No first appearance entries prior to FF #1.
>
> That wasn't an error. They made a conscious choice not to list Golden Age stuff, as at that point much of it wasn't confirmed as being in continuity - entries for Golden Age characters like Namor therefore listed "First Modern Appearance." If they'd said just "First Appearance" it would have been wrong, but that Modern bit is the proof they didn't make a mistake. A lot more Golden Age stuff is now confirmed as being in continuity, so the current handbooks no longer use that clarification, and instead try to list the historical first appearance, no matter when it was.

In the Captain Marvel entry they list his first appearance as Marvel Superheros isuue #18 (instead of the correct issue #12), maybe just a simple typo to some (nobody's perefect I know), but a lot of dissapointing bike riding to comic stores and frantically asking annoyed comic store clerks for me.


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