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Post By
Menshevik

In Reply To
Blue Beetle

Subj: Re: Revenge origins/loss of a loved one origins, a list in Marvel Preview#20, can anyone n
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:34:16 pm EDT
Reply Subj: Re: Revenge origins/loss of a loved one origins, a list in Marvel Preview#20, can anyone name
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:16:44 am EDT

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> ____________________________________________________
> Anyway, can anyone name some more post-Batman characters with revenge origins?


Interesting to me is the long list of Marvel heroes who don't have revenge origins:

Captain America*
Iron Man*
Thor
Ant Man/Giant-Man
Wasp
Hulk
Vision
Hawkeye
Scarlet Witch

(thus the entire early Avengers team)

Fantastic Four (Reed, Johnny, Sue, Ben)
X-Men (Xavier, Cyclops, Angel, Beast, Iceman, Marvel Girl)

And come to think of it, neither does this guy:

Spider-Man**


* Captain America and Iron Man both had facilitating persons die as part of their origins, yet in neither case was the death of the facilitating person the fundamental reason for subsequent heroism.

** Spider-Man had a beloved family member and father figure die as part of his origin, and that death was certainly fundamental to why Peter Parker subsequently became a hero, but Peter's driving force was never revenge, but guilt. Indeed, guilt is the core theme of the comic. Tangentially, I'll note a particular fantasy novel trilogy that very clearly has "guilt as the source of heroism" as its core theme: Stephen R. Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever.




--
"We ask merely a man's worth... not the accident of his condition."
Henry Pym, Avengers #58, 1968 - "Even an Android Can Cry" (Roy Thomas)


> > ____________________________________________________
> > Anyway, can anyone name some more post-Batman characters with revenge origins?
>
>
> Interesting to me is the long list of Marvel heroes who don't have revenge origins:
>
> Captain America*
> Iron Man*
> Thor
> Ant Man/Giant-Man
> Wasp

Actually, in the Wasp's origin story, Janet's father Vernon Van Dyne was murdered by an escaped criminal from the plante Kosmos which provides her with her motivation (quote: "I shall dedicate my life to finding his murderer! [...] I wish I could help track down all the criminals, the human wolves who prey on honest people!") And in a flashback earlier in that same story, Hank Pym's first wife, Maria Trovaya, was murdered by secret policemen behind the Iron Curtain, after which he goes on to rant "I'll make them pay" etc.)

> Hulk

In Bruce Banner's retconned origin, his father murdering his mother was a contributing factor to the psychological condition that gave rise to the Hulk.

> Vision
> Hawkeye
> Scarlet Witch

Dou you think Quicksilver had a revenge motive his sister didnÄt or did you just forget him?
>
> (thus the entire early Avengers team)

Well, not quite. Hank and Jan had full-blown revenge motives, Tony Stark was at least partially motivated by revenge (see below), and the Black Widow originally had become a Soviet secret agent in putative revenge for the death of her husband. But the choice of the name "Avengers" still is a rather strange one...
>
> * Captain America and Iron Man both had facilitating persons die as part of their origins, yet in neither case was the death of the facilitating person the fundamental reason for subsequent heroism.

It was at least a strong contributing reason in Iron Man's case (quotes from the origin story: "You will not have died in vain, my friend! I swear it! The Iron Man swears it!" and "Now, Professor Yinsen, rest easy! You, who sacrificed your life to save mine, have been avenged!")
>



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