Marvel Universe >> View Post
Post By
Blue Beetle

In Reply To
Menshevik

Subj: Re: Revenge origins/loss of a loved one origins, a list in Marvel Preview#20, can anyone n
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:00:45 pm EDT
Reply Subj: Re: Revenge origins/loss of a loved one origins, a list in Marvel Preview#20, can anyone n
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:34:16 pm EDT

Previous Post

> > ____________________________________________________
> > Anyway, can anyone name some more post-Batman characters with revenge origins?
>
>
> Interesting to me is the long list of Marvel heroes who don't have revenge origins:
>
> Captain America*
> Iron Man*
> Thor
> Ant Man/Giant-Man
> Wasp

Actually, in the Wasp's origin story, Janet's father Vernon Van Dyne was murdered by an escaped criminal from the plante Kosmos which provides her with her motivation (quote: "I shall dedicate my life to finding his murderer! [...] I wish I could help track down all the criminals, the human wolves who prey on honest people!") And in a flashback earlier in that same story, Hank Pym's first wife, Maria Trovaya, was murdered by secret policemen behind the Iron Curtain, after which he goes on to rant "I'll make them pay" etc.)

> Hulk

In Bruce Banner's retconned origin, his father murdering his mother was a contributing factor to the psychological condition that gave rise to the Hulk.

> Vision
> Hawkeye
> Scarlet Witch

Dou you think Quicksilver had a revenge motive his sister didnÄt or did you just forget him?
>
> (thus the entire early Avengers team)

Well, not quite. Hank and Jan had full-blown revenge motives, Tony Stark was at least partially motivated by revenge (see below), and the Black Widow originally had become a Soviet secret agent in putative revenge for the death of her husband. But the choice of the name "Avengers" still is a rather strange one...
>
> * Captain America and Iron Man both had facilitating persons die as part of their origins, yet in neither case was the death of the facilitating person the fundamental reason for subsequent heroism.

It was at least a strong contributing reason in Iron Man's case (quotes from the origin story: "You will not have died in vain, my friend! I swear it! The Iron Man swears it!" and "Now, Professor Yinsen, rest easy! You, who sacrificed your life to save mine, have been avenged!")
>


> Actually, in the Wasp's origin story, Janet's father Vernon Van Dyne was murdered by an escaped criminal from the plante Kosmos which provides her with her motivation (quote: "I shall dedicate my life to finding his murderer! [...] I wish I could help track down all the criminals, the human wolves who prey on honest people!") And in a flashback earlier in that same story, Hank Pym's first wife, Maria Trovaya, was murdered by secret policemen behind the Iron Curtain, after which he goes on to rant "I'll make them pay" etc.)


Wow - I guess I missed all that. Was it in the Tales to Astonish stories?

In the early Avengers stories, Janet was a hero because Hank was. Or at least it seemed that way to me. I never got a revenge vibe from Jan, ever. Or from Hank, for that matter.


> > Hulk
>
> In Bruce Banner's retconned origin, his father murdering his mother was a contributing factor to the psychological condition that gave rise to the Hulk.


Retcons. Bah, humbug.


> > Vision
> > Hawkeye
> > Scarlet Witch
>
> Dou you think Quicksilver had a revenge motive his sister didnÄt or did you just forget him?


I forgot him. I knew I was forgetting someone. 8\-\)


> Well, not quite. Hank and Jan had full-blown revenge motives, Tony Stark was at least partially motivated by revenge (see below), and the Black Widow originally had become a Soviet secret agent in putative revenge for the death of her husband. But the choice of the name "Avengers" still is a rather strange one...


I dispute the Tony Stark contention. It's not as if he went into battle yelling, "For Yinsen!" 8\-\)


> It was at least a strong contributing reason in Iron Man's case (quotes from the origin story: "You will not have died in vain, my friend! I swear it! The Iron Man swears it!" and "Now, Professor Yinsen, rest easy! You, who sacrificed your life to save mine, have been avenged!")


Yinsen mattered in that first story to the same extent Erskine mattered in the Captain America origin. Emotional resonance was certainly there. But Tony didn't continue being Iron Man so he could avenge Yinsen.

In the case of Batman, or the Punisher, the dead family members are frequently on the hero's mind, with the deaths fueling the heroics. Such wasn't the case for Tony, and certainly wasn't for Hank and Jan, as I had never even heard of these deaths until you told me about them, and I've read quite a lot of Silver Age Marvel.




--
"We ask merely a man's worth... not the accident of his condition."
Henry Pym, Avengers #58, 1968 - "Even an Android Can Cry" (Roy Thomas)