Previous Post > > Thats actually going back into the past and re-writing history. That was not an option here...there was no...here go back and re-write history. If Tony was given that option and then failed to talk to Cap differntly then you could argue this...as of now your logic doesnt apply in any way shape or form. > > As it was retcon revealed that Tony had had visions of the Civil War as far back as Iron Man 150, he had had PLENTY of time to set things up and involve Captain America from the start. > > As discussed on this MB in the past, Tony did nothing from that point until Standford, nothing to even foster junior hero training by voluntary options which might have formed a more easily managed seed for the Initiative. he tried and was totally blocked by the other heroes...and it's funny this keeps popping up when the Illuminati issue shows Tony trying just such a thing and being told off.

> > As discussed on this MB in the past, Tony did nothing from that point until Standford, nothing to even foster junior hero training by voluntary options which might have formed a more easily managed seed for the Initiative.
>
> he tried and was totally blocked by the other heroes...and it's funny this keeps popping up when the Illuminati issue shows Tony trying just such a thing and being told off.

Perhaps some of us aren't reading the Illuminati because it's been a retcon fest on such a mind boggling level. Sure, we've meeting up all these years despite never acknoledging it in our own titles all this time. Sure, we trust ourselves as the self appointed guardians of the Infinity Gems despite the massive character flaws each has? The Beyonder, bah, he was an INHUMAN... Oy!

So they not only had to retcon in this sudden psychohistorical epiphany, which he didn't even mention at the time, they've had add retcon after retcon to stress the fact that everyone else in the whole MU ignored him?

He's Tony Stark, he's rich beyond the dreams of Croesus, he coud have set it up HIMSELF if he was that desperate to avoid the fate he foresaw with his never before and never seen since powers of psychohistorical projection, encourage the New Warriors to train from the outset etc.

Sorry, you can try and justify it how you like, to have retconned in such a massive life-changing realisation so long ago (relative time) and to have nothing actually achieved after all this time shows Tony in a desperately poor light.