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calmly saying don't sweat it - we're talking comic books ,rubber monster suits, & adolescent wishes

In Reply To
Surly Rockbottom

Subj: Re: You have crystalized the problem beautifully. Movie makers don't seem.....
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 09:17:49 am CDT (Viewed 76 times)
Reply Subj: Re: You have crystalized the problem beautifully. Movie makers don't seem.....
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 08:53:58 am CDT (Viewed 55 times)

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> > HULK MOVIE SPOILER - (but an obvious one)
> >
> >
> > I say this is an obvious spoiler because I think everybody knows it before they enter the theatre, but any way, here's the spoiler:
> >
> > 1. I don't want Bruce Banner to stop becoming the Hulk, because then there would be no more Hulk, and I don't want that.
> >
> > 2. I know Bruce Banner will never stop becoming the Hulk, because then there would be no more Hulk, and Marvel won't allow that.
> >
> > Thus I both want and expect the protagonist to fail in the main goal of his life.
> > Did anyone else feel the same way?
> >
> to trust the character of the Hulk.
> I don't think they understand the book's appeal.

It seems to me that they don't understand the book's CURRENT appeal. The Hulk that Stan Lee was trying to create was something akin to a modern monster story. The appeal for me in those days was exactly the fact that this Banner guy turned into an unpredictable monster and had to suffer for it. That was interesting human drama.

> The overwhelming proof of this is the way we are all going gah gah over him saying "Hulk smash".

Some did, yes . . . but others moaned and said later "I so knew he was going to say that at that moment."

> The Hulk is wish fulfillment of the primal power in all of us.

Speak for yourself. I have absolutely no need to be that violent.

> The Hulk is indomitable.

Ostensibly, yes.

> Humanity - both his own and the outside world cannot stop him.

That's debatable. There has to be some sense of suspense for the protagonist's well-being.

> We want to be indomitable.

Again speak for yourself.

> We want to overcome our own weakness and the limits society puts on us.

Yes to the former, not so much to the latter. We may foolishly want to overcome society's limits, but most of the people who do that are in jail. We should want to work together as a society to determine which limits are going to work the best for keeping things balanced (a message of the movie actually - Banner needs to balance or come to terms with his "limitation" not destroy it completely).

> In any Hulk vs Abomination fight their is a pattern.
> Blonsky is stronger and more skilled and wins early while verbally villifying Hulk.
> Hulk's rage spikes and Blonsky faces true palpable fear as he begins losing.
> Blonsky asks "Why?", "How?", "Where did he go wrong?"
> The Hulk responds with "Where are your words now? You are weak! Hulk is strongest one there is!"

And that is why Abomination/Hulk battles get really old really fast.

> We all want to say that to our oppressors.

When were pissed, yeah.

> That is his appeal - The Hulk is our wish to batter down life's frustrations.

You're scaring me. I have no desire to get that analogously violent with life's frustrations.

> Toho often makes the same mistake with Godzilla.
> They don't seem to understand that we are all rooting for Godzilla not the army.

Godzilla is symbolic of the bomb! No damn wonder the Japanese don't root for him! Ever notice his breath is radioactive!! Godzilla is a cultural narrative response to a horrific event for the Japanese. Look at the pattern.

Radioactive terror destroys city.
Japanese army brave, but useless.
Massive destruction.
Japanese people humbly rebuild, knowing that the radioactive terror is still out there . . .

Did I just describe a Godzilla movie or WWII?

All is well - the reason I think many people like the hyper destructive Hulk and Godzilla personnas over societies better angels is because it is a safe (on screen or page - not realworld0 way of indulging in juvenile destructive impulses - usually on behalf of some vaguely positive cause (I'm talking Godzilla's 3rd or 4th movies off and on forward)

I agree the Hulk started out as a Hyde/Frankenstein hybrid - much more in the horror than superhero vein.

However, Hollywood has generally clipped the voices of those two characters too.

The monster clearly articulates his point of view - it just doesn't match up with society.
Hyde has a point of view - it's distasteful because it comes from the darkest parts of humanity.

If you think most of humanity doesn't have a little HULK SMASH living inside them then you haven't driven during rush hour in a big city.

There is a dark part of many of us that sides with these characters points of view - not the majority of the time - but in our most frustrated or childish moments.

Not everyone is as mature as you and never lets their inner child out to play. Kudos on your constant inherent restraint BUT remember what the Bacchae says happens to those who don't regularly indulge small losses of control - THEY GO MAD!!!

Just kidding I'm sure you're cool - just taking me at my earlier word and I'm doing the same.

As to the Abomination fights getting boring - WELLLL since there' never been one on screen - it would have been nice to see the first one be archetypal - the book has been a strong seller for 40 + years so the must do something right.

Same with Hulk smash - the cheers were loud - Yours is the first allusion to negative mumbling that I have heard.

As to Toho
Godzilla WAS a symbol of the A bomb - that's why the orignal works so well and why Cloverfield ripped it off so beautifully a metaphor for our human/non-political response to 9-11.

But as soon as he began defending Earth as often as he destroyed it - he became Hulk like - More a primal force responding to man and others than just a creation of man. It's a subversion of the original intent but all living things grow, adapt, even mutate.

Interesting to hear such a different point of view on the same character.
I don't run into folks who are so enamored of Banner over Big Green.

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