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Post By
Jase

In Reply To
Nitz the Bloody

Subj: Re: Nostalgia's Limits
Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 at 12:27:01 am EDT (Viewed 82 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Nostalgia's Limits
Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 at 11:24:36 pm EDT (Viewed 88 times)



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    Jessica Jones definitely ( though she's never been an official member, mostly just hanging out in the background with the baby ), but Luke and Jessica both had been well-established before Bendis took over. Their presence may reflect Bendis' love of the 70's ( especially Jessica Drew in recent issues, who is literally lifted out of the past after being usurped by Veranke ), but they aren't " Mary Sues " in that sense.


No, but for the most part they were still effectively...how do I put it - well, dead. Creatively at least. Cage was still bouncing around the MU, but had nowhere near the visibility he once had till he was pulled in for New Avengers #1, and Jessica Drew was even worse off, depowered and forgotten about, with another superheroine operating as Spider-Woman. Even The Sentry was practically almost just a What If character till he was dragged in to do a whole lot of nothing.


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      Outside of the Stern run, who seriously tried to write Jan as anything more than what she was though? Byrne practically all but had them get re-married during his AWC stint. Busiek tried to fit it in because it was previously established history thanks to Stern, but you could tell while reading it he wasn't really feeling it.



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    Fair point, though Busiek did do away with the ditz Jan of his first few issues rather swiftly, chalking it up to " Revertigo " ( a How I Met Your Mother term for regressing in maturity around old friends, for those not in the know ).



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      90% of the Jan stuff out there portrays her as a ditz. I know and accept this. It would have been nice though if someone else would have tried to at least build on that to make her more, instead of leaving her as an almost prophetically bizarre version of Paris Hilton.



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    The Giant Girl of Marvel Adventures Avengers does this pretty well, in no small part because she's in a version of the Marvel universe where being a goofy ditz is encouraged, as opposed to a tremendous combat liability.



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      That said, I'm gonna hijack some points of your thread from the AMB and say I totally buy Pym and Jan as a weird, 616-style version of House and Cameron(though I can see elements of Stacy in there as well). As for Pym's Wilson, Bill Foster had he lived, would have fit that role pretty well, better than Stark or Jarvis, since Wilson, despite his attempts to try and 'fix' House is also in many ways an enabler of him as well. Eric O'Grady, Cassie Lang and Tom Foster, as proteges of Pym would be interesting. If you're looking for a pre-existing character as a Cuddy type for Pym though, you might be better served making one up - I can't(at least at this moment) think of a pre-existing character who could conceivably have that kind of dynamic with Pym.



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    My choices for the Cuddy to Hank's House would either be Alice Nugent or Tigra, though one's a super-villainess and the other is hardly material for a position of authority.


I think you've almost made my point for me. \:D


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      (Yes, I'm a big House fan. \:\- )



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    I am too. But if we were trying to pick characters who specifically match the roles of House's staff ( regardless of prior attachment to Hank ), who'd you pick? Jan makes a good Cameron, while I'd pick Slipstream for Chase, the Falcon for Foreman, Felicia Hardy for Thirteen, and Scott Summers as Taub. Thunderbird 3 can be Kutner, though in light of recent episodes, Thunderbird 1 might be more accurate \:\(


Sounds like fun -

Jan has all the necessary traits for Cameron. Despite their breakups, she keeps coming back to Hank. Or: one could push her to the Stacy role(the lost love who almost throws away her current happiness to repeat past mistakes), and use Firebird as a Cameron analogue. Like Cameron, Bonita can be blind(well, maybe not blind, but...let's say dismissive) to Hank's faults.

While he seems to have moved away from that characterization, my favorite version of Chase is still the one where he's a House brown-noser. Almost no one is left in the MU who still respects Hank enough to want to please him no matter what. If Scott Lang was still alive, maybe. I'd have to revisit this one later.

The Eric Foreman figure needs to be someone who respects him, but will still get in his face. Sam Wilson will get in anybody's face. The Tom Foster Goliath seems young and angry enough to challenge and defy Pym at times, and it would be a little easier to see him as deferential to Pym than Sam. There's also the Beast. On a team that had the Black Panther, Tony Stark, and Hank Pym, I remember Hank McCoy could get pretty annoyed and opinionated when he was sometimes dismissed and overlooked for scientific contributions.

Cyke as Taub?!?! Well, he is a stick to the point jerk with a troubled marriage...then again, his little brother Havok can also pull that same shtick and might be more malleable for this type of scenario than Scott IMO.

I'm also thinking someone feline for Thirteen, though I had in mind a somewhat tamer Greer Nelson, or even Patsy Walker.

And Kutner! Ah Kutner! Someone who shares the House/Pym philosophy of science. Maybe a new(er) character. Maybe the Eddie McDonough Hornet from Slingers. He was a bit of a science geek and doesn't have enough history to disrespect him.

I still like Bill for Wilson, but he's dead. And I still can't find a good Marvel character for Cuddy yet. MAYBE a (somewhat) reformed Sunset Bain. Maybe.

I think it also needs to be said that for the Pym/House analogy to truly succeed, Hank needs to get a whole lot more arrogant than he's been...like, EVER.


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      It doesn't matter to me about them being the "Other". They were invading Earth. If Hydra, the Brotherhood, or the Kree performed that kind of assault on the planet, then in my mind, the heroes shouldn't feel bad about taking life to preserve life.



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    Fair enough, my apologies for misinterpreting.


No problem.


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      BTW, I like the cast page for Ruby.



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    Thanks. I'm glad you enjoyed reading it, because I sure as hell enjoyed writing it ( shades of Mark Millar's villains come across in hindsight ).





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