Marvel Universe >> View Post
Post By
Nitz the Bloody

In Reply To

Subj: Psuedo-scientific probability listings for Marvel resurrections?
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 at 04:54:16 pm EDT (Viewed 100 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Never say never, just ask Bucky
Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 at 07:40:03 pm EDT (Viewed 141 times)

Previous Post


      Kitty Pryde wasn't explicitly killed off, and I don't really believe characters like Jean Grey or Steve Rogers will stay dead, so I'm not listing them. If someone disagrees with my reasoning, feel free to go ahead and list them anyway.

    I think that at this point, " Marvel dead " is another word for " taking a nap "; the moment Bucky came back was the moment when Dead means Dead lost any meaning it had left. So the characters you list like John Proudstar and Mar-Vell and Heinrich Zemo are more " 97% likely to remain dead " than outright dead. Mortality seems discussed by a Kinsey scale in the MU.

This is pretty much true. I don't really expect any of the names that accumulate here to really be off-limits to an eventual return, just that the probability of their return is probably under 50%.

In those specific three cases mentioned, the presence of Warpath keeps the Thunderbird look and powerset in circulation w/out actually having to bring him back. Ditto Baron Helmut Zemo in regards to Baron Heinreich Zemo. Their very existence helps to keep their forebears dead, although I believe the strength of the Death of Captain Marvel story is what keeps Mar-Vell in his grave as opposed to the strength of his successors(we've gone through Monica Rambeau, Genis, Phylla, a HoM Carol Danvers, Skrull-Vell, and now Noh-Var since Mar-Vell). Is it impossible they could come back? Of course not. But certain factors make a return very unlikely.

    But what I will dispute is the likelihood that Jean or Steve Rogers or Kitty will come back sooner rather than later. Characters are resurrected either because their absence was missed, or because their value as an IP to be merchandised later is too high to waste. Unless the Brubaker/Hitch Reborn series is played totally straight ( and I expect/hope to God it won't be ), Steve has no reason to come back, since Captain Bucky has been well received and WW2/Silver Age flashbacks keep the character in circulation. Jean is a similar case since Emma has taken over her role, and the Phoenix Force further compounds the issue of her mortality ( she may never be totally dead, but is she totally alive, either? ). And Kitty's currency amongst the X-Men as the plucky girl sidekick has long since passed, taken over by Hisako and Pixie at the moment.

Jean is Schrodinger's Cat!?!

I still hold it's only a matter of time. I think we're at a point where the X-books are crazy enough to finally do the unholy and have Jean hook up w/ Wolverine since Cyclops is still boffing the white Queen, so Emma's presence isn't necessarily a deterrent to a Jean return. She's an original X-Man with mainstream recognition due to the animated series and movies, who only died (again) because Morrison wanted to push the x-franchise out of its comfort zone. They've already done away with most of Grant's x-contributions, and honestly, the Emma/Scott relationship really isn't that interesting so much as its a novelty because its different. There aren't much more reasons to keep Jean in the grave than there are to revive her, and eventually the latter will win out because it usually does in cases like this.

As for Steve and Kitty: Steve, for all we know, it was always part of Ed's plot for Rogers to eventually come back - Marvel is no stranger to the 'get rid of them to make people miss them' approach of comics storytelling. As for Kitty, I think the ambiguous departure they gave her says it all. They didn't even try to kill her on-panel. Her disappearance occurred in the same title that revived Colossus, another character who some would argue didn't need to return either.

    Janet Van Dyne might come back when Avengers tie-ins like the upcoming animated series and movie become closer to a reality, though.

I keep forgetting she's dead. I guess that shows what I think of the Jan death.

In light of your comments, I've listed what I feel are likelihood percentiles of the following characters coming back from the grave in the next year..

John Proudstar: 1%. He could have been a great character, as evidenced by his cyborg alt. U counterpart in the early Exiles. But he lasted all of three issues, didn't have his backstory fleshed out that much, and has his entire shtick adopted by James.

Heinrich Zemo: 5%. Zemo family drama could be used as a reason to bring him back, but again, Helmut took over his Daddy's gimmick ( and did so without having spent twenty years in a Central American jungle, reading scientific journals for new developments in adhesive removal ).

Mar-Vell: 20%. Noh-Varr seems to be the current heir to the " Marvel-titled cosmic figurehead " character, and the Mar-Vell we thought returned in Civil War was a Skrull; however, the Distinguished Competition has found success in their seemingly pathological obsession with returning the exhumed, so Marvel might follow suit. I mean, if Barry Allen can drag his corpse out of the eighties...

Kitty Pryde: 33%. Though the Sisterhood could bring her back, the attention seems to be on Psylocke for now; plus, a sub-plot in the last Uncanny arc focused on Peter getting over her death, it'd be a stupid interruption if brought into the Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men crossover, and Hisako and Pixie are sharing Kitty's iconic role as the team's plucky girl sidekick. Inevitable, but not likely.

Jean Grey: 66%. Definitely inevitable, but you were correct when you described Jean's state as that of Schrodinger's cat ( with the White Hot Room being the box ); Grant Morrison removed Jean's consciousness so far from the limits of human perceptions that unless Marvel somehow just yanks the human Jean out of the White Hot Room, it'd be hard to have Phoenix convincingly return. ( Though the upcoming covers to Uncanny suggest a Jean-type character, which might be more of Maddie, but still... )

Steve Rogers: 90%. Even more inevitable, but I'm hoping for a radical swerve, which wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for Brubaker ( the guy who brought back Bucky, and did so well ).

Any others to add?