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Post By
Kieran Frost

In Reply To
Nitz the Bloody

Subj: Huh?
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 05:57:30 pm CDT (Viewed 211 times)
Reply Subj: Re: But there isn't a misogynistic undertone to Marvel!
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 05:06:33 pm CDT (Viewed 256 times)




    Quote:
    None of which excludes female characters from being deep and effective. Also note that Carol Danvers turned to alcoholism largely due to the PTSD of her rape at the hands of Marcus Immortus, while Tony was able to go off the wagon for reasons not related to being a victim.

Wait.  So you want stories that focus on women being deep, away from the superhero yarns; but when you get a story dealing with PTSD, dealing with alcoholism, dealing with rape (all dramatic NON-superhero/real world problems); you're not happy? ;\)


    Quote:
    [ref. Twilight]And do you really think that the women who enjoy those things only do so because of the hot guys?

No, I think they watch it for it's Oscar winning potential ;\) The same way men watch Megan Fox for her lessons in method acting \:P


    Quote:
    Even Twilight's female fans can talk at length about the stories and the characters and who Bella should end up with. Also note that Twilight is getting a graphic novel adaptation, so its audience is clearly receptive to comics ( if not spandex ).

I would argue MUCH of this is due to the success of the books and film; and the whole "vampire" theme (very popular in comics/and with males) and not a genuine attempt to bring in oodles of new female comic readers.


    Quote:
    [art and women] There are male characters who certainly don't qualify as pretty, such as Ben Grimm ( after the radiation ), the Hulk, Hank McCoy in his second mutation, and Rockslide of the Academy X cast. There are male characters who often have slighter builds, like Peter Parker and Reed Richards. And almost no artists draw male characters with bulging " parts ", at least compared to the way artists draw women's breasts.

a) Peter Park is OFTEN drawn as very sexy!  What comics do you read?
b) the Hulk, the Thing, Rockslide would all fall into the "beef cake" category, and YES people do find that attractive (I prefer swimmer builds, like Spiderman, one could say ;\) )
c) "almost no artists draw male characters with bulging "parts", at least compared to the way artists draw women's breasts." The obvious reason for that would be societies dislike of male "parts" as beautiful; where as society for centuries and in hundreds of different cultures revere the female breasts as "motherly", "beautiful", "curvy", "womanly" and so on, and NOT always as a sexual thing. Many, many gay artists happily draw nude females, because they say the "form is beautiful." It's not my fault Marvel must live by societies rules and not show Daken's "part" (if only). If they started showing details of male parts on a regular bases, they would be sued for obscenity.  Females can appear topless in public and many, MANY advertising campaigns as long as the nipples are covered.  You can't even show the start of a penis in England without starting an uproar.  That's the world we live in, if anything it seems "sexists" against men, in my opinion. \:P


    Quote:
    Nor are there male characters who have seduction as part of their basic look a la Emma Frost.

Number 1 tactic for men in acting and in life = anger
Number 1 tactic for women in acting and in life = seduction
That's how the world works. So obviously few male characters use "seduction" as there outfit; mainly because a man trying to "dress" seductively would often if not always come across as incompetently comical, rather than actually "seductive". Men can do sexy, not seductive. I mean what would they wear? A g-string and sunglasses? ;\)


    Quote:
    [ref. female leaders and in comics] In terms of percentages, those are still very small compared to the men, even if they're larger than the female readership. You're saying that men are the most interesting characters by and large, but that it's not a problem that there are fewer interesting female characters. So doesn't the system perpetuate itself being a boys' club?

a) but female characters make up the core of EVERY team. Where as women do not make up the "core readers" in any of Marvel's big comics.
b) I did say "not a complete list". Do I really have to list EVERY female character to satify you? \:D
c) when did I say "men are the most interesting characters by and large, but that it's not a problem that there are fewer interesting female characters."?????? I think you missed my point, maybe?  I never said that.


    Quote:
    [ref. anyone who likes a character based on surface level features is shallow] Anyone who's studied identity politics knows that the such markers are far more than skin deep. Being a woman isn't just about having breasts, but about being raised female and having a personality shaped by the experience of what being female means in a society. Just like how sexual orientation isn't just about preference for genitalia, race isn't just about skin color, or anything else of the sort. So it's a call to have good female personalities that women can relate to, not to put more token females on teams.

a) these are comics, not "identity politics" pamphlets ;\)
b) but should we respect that? People so depthless that they want their comic enjoyment to be a mirror to themselves?  Women who are so insecure they can only "identify" if the character matches the surface level aspects of "woman parts" What shallow people!  I see no reason why we should bend even an inch for such worthless individuals?


    Quote:
    Also, given how women make up over 50% of the world population, why wouldn't Marvel want that as a potential consumer base?

By all means, happily ignore the fact women just don't like to read comics; and use that argument. \:\) The problem, as I already said, Marvel comics are about super heroes in action. This is just NOT something females on mass want to read. Unless Marvel can manage to change the psyche of women that has existed since the dawn of time; and make women suddenly fascinated by action, I don't see how that arguement carries any weight? 




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