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Post By
Reverend Meteor

In Reply To
TJ Burns

Subj: Re: Not in my opinion.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 07:13:35 pm EST (Viewed 17 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Not in my opinion.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 02:09:47 pm EST (Viewed 137 times)



    Quote:

    OUCH... you have my condolences for that one. FF #350 is an excellent Doom appearance, but only in context. Left to its own like that, I can see your point.



    Quote:
    Zemo's a favorite of mine too, but I don't see him as a villain, myself.


It struck me as Doom has an automatic out every time he is defeated...he can just blame the defeat on the Doombot...not the makings of a compelling villain IMO. I just don't see anything that makes him complex. Ostensibly he cares about his people but he's screwed them over without a second thought several times. He supposedly wants to conquer the world to make it a better place but when ever he gets absolute power or a position of global authority (like say when he ruled Counter Earth) he gets bored with his prize fairly quickly. He claims his word is his bond but he frequently gives his word and breaks it. He doesn't have friends or lovers or family that are important to him...he raised Kristoff because he owed him because of his mother's death at the hands of his robots but he's tried to kill him before...oh wait that was a doombot....his motivations can't even stay consistent on account of those robots.

To me Dr. Doom is the generic mustache twirling villain who ties the maiden to the train tracks. He's Snidely Whiplash. Seriously I want someone to convince me I'm wrong...I know he has his supporters here...someone please tell me why he's cool...because I just don't get it.

As for Helmut...I don't see him as a villain either. Not a hero. Not a villain. He transcends both labels. Maybe he's an anti-villain?

One thing that used to annoy me in the early years of Thunderbolts was the idea that we the fans were supposed to assume Helmut and Norbert (Fixer/Techno) were evil and just write them off as irredeemable. To me these were the two characters I saw myself in and I don't like thinking I'm irredeemable. Helmut's first appearance always stood out for me...he got into the villain game because he loved his abusive father and blamed his being abused as a child on Cap disfiguring Heinrich...and maybe Cap was right to stop Heinrich but it still destroyed Helmut's childhood. This was a guy who loved and had faith in his father despite the abuse he lived through. To me someone who can love that much to the point it defies logic can't totally be evil...he was damaged sure. But to me there was always something about Helmut...something worth saving instead of just writing him off as an irredeemable monster. Heck he was nearly killed because he defied the Red Skull and that was pre-tbolts. Cap knew he was just mixed up the first time they fought. I always felt if Helmut hadn't been disfigured in that first battle Cap could have talked some sense into him.

Whenever I think of Helmut I think of Wernher Von Braun. He was a nazi. He saw thousands of jews worked to death at Mittlewerk to build his rockets. But he was brilliant. Without him we Americans wouldn't have the Saturn V rocket and been able to put men on the moon. To me Helmut is a horrible person who is too brilliant just to execute because he's "evil"...he has the brains to really contribute something worthwhile to the world. It's better to have him on the side of good doing something to contribute than marginalizing him as a villain.




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