Marvel Universe >> View Post
·
Post By
The Black Guardian
Moderator

Location: Paragon City, RI
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Reverend Meteor

Subj: Re: Frankie Raye...is she Toro's daughter or isn't she?
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 05:38:30 pm EDT (Viewed 186 times)
Reply Subj: Frankie Raye...is she Toro's daughter or isn't she?
Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 at 04:51:48 pm EDT (Viewed 26 times)

Previous Post

(accidentally posted this on the Avengers board...meant to post it here)

Ok years ago back in the Power Pack series there was this character named Mr. Raymond. Mr. Raymond was strongly hinted to be Toro the golden age Human Torch's sidekick. He also hinted that Frankie Raye was his daughter.

Since then Frankie has been killed. Mr. Raymond has sunk into comic book limbo never to return and it was never proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was Toro anyways. A WW2 era Toro was brought back to the present last I checked. Byrne gave Toro a widow and retconned much of what we thought we knew about Phineas Horton (frankie's alleged step-father, creator of the golden age human Torch and employer of Toro's parents if memory serves) only for Busiek to pile on even more retcons later.

So given all that does the hint that Frankie Raye is Thomas Raymond's daughter have merit? My personal feeling is that even though all of this crap has made ever finding an answer to this question unlikely to happen (if not outright pointing towards answering the question in a negative) that Frankie Raye really is Toro's daughter.

Maybe Mr. Raymond was just some dumb LMD who thought he was Toro. But I still think the real Thomas Raymond was Frankie's father.

Here is my reasoning. Thomas almost certainly looked to Phineas Horton as some sort of grandfather or avuncular figure. The name Thomas is Phineas Horton's middle name (interestingly the Scarlet Witch also named her son Thomas after Horton). Thomas Raymond's parents worked as lab assistants for Phineas and I'm pretty sure Horton's work with the process that enabled Jim Hammond to become a human torch is the reason Toro grew up to have the powers that he did.

Frankie was raised by her step-father a man named Thomas Raye. Thomas Raye was just an alias used by one Phineas T Horton. My belief is that after Thomas Raymond's death (and this is where I may have my math wrong) Horton was so utterly devastated at losing this man he loved like a nephew or a grandson (whose powers and lifestyle as a hero are kind of Horton's fault) that he chose to console the mother of Toro's child and contrived to marry her in order to be a father figure to Frankie.

One aspect of my theory I haven't worked out is if Toro's wife Ann is Frankie's mom or if Frankie is Toro's illegitimate daughter with another woman.

I'm assuming Byrne never intended for us to think Toro was Frankie's father when he weaved Phineas into Frankie's backstory or when he brought Phineas and Anne Raymond into the Vision dismantling storyline at roughly the same time. But the hint of Toro being Frankie's father in Power Pack...it makes a lot of sense to me. The pieces are there but the puzzle has never been put together in the comics.

It all fits together so well that I have trouble believing Frankie was ever thought to be anything but.

Roy Thomas may or may not have had this intention, but I have trouble thinking Byrne didn't. IIRC, Byrne even dropped a hint of this in AWC, although it was much later.




City of Heroes is BACK!
Posted with Mozilla Firefox 19.0 on Windows 8
Alvaro's Comicboards powered by On Topic™ © 2003-2022 Powermad Software
All the content of these boards Copyright © 1996-2022 by Comicboards/TVShowboards. Software Copyright © 2003-2022 Powermad Software