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Post By
Reverend Meteor

In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: Frankie Raye...is she Toro's daughter or isn't she?
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 at 09:29:37 am EDT (Viewed 15 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Frankie Raye...is she Toro's daughter or isn't she?
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 at 08:43:07 am EDT (Viewed 197 times)



    Quote:

      Quote:
      I'm assuming Byrne never intended for us to think Toro was Frankie's father when he weaved Phineas into Frankie's backstory or when he brought Phineas and Anne Raymond into the Vision dismantling storyline at roughly the same time. But the hint of Toro being Frankie's father in Power Pack...it makes a lot of sense to me. The pieces are there but the puzzle has never been put together in the comics.

    I agree : the legacy would be much more logical than another random mutagenic reaction to unknown chemicals.


Well I'm not saying the vat of fluid that fell on Frankie didn't trigger Human Torch powers but maybe the potential for power was there all along and the chemicals just triggered her latent powers.

Then again Phineas was hypnotizing and messing with Frankie's memory all the time so if someone wanted to say he gave her a false memory of a vat of chemicals falling on her I couldn't argue with it either.



    Quote:
    Besides, the names are very similar : "Thomas Raye / Thomas Raymond".
    "Thomas Raye" was supposed to be an alias of Phineas Norton but why did he decide to use one so close to the real name of Toro ?


The T in Phineas T Horton stands for Thomas. Toro's father Fred Raymond was Phineas's lab assistant (his mother Nora Jones was a scientist) and presumably Phineas considered them to be friends. I'm assuming that's why they named their son Thomas. When Toro's parents were killed in a train crash I think the people who took Thomas in were Phineas and his creation James Hammond the Golden Age Human Torch.

I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that Phineas had a great deal of affection for Toro. This was a boy whose father got sick by working in Phineas lab. The Raymonds named the boy after Phineas. Phineas and James Hammond sort of raised Toro for a while after the Raymonds died in a train crash. When Toro died I'm sure Phineas was almost as devastated as when James Hammond died.

I'm thinking Phineas found out Toro had a daughter and knew this girl had the potential to become a human Torch like her father. The thing is I'm not sure if Byrne intended Ann Raymond to be Frankie's mother or not. Yesterday I wasn't even sure Byrne intended Frankie and Toro to be related until I reread AWC #50 last night which while not confirming a relationship it does tie Phineas, James, Vision, Toro, Ann and Frankie all into the same story. The way Hank Pym brings up Frankie in the discussion about Phineas and the Vision it seems so bizarre and forced that it must have been a hint that Byrne was planning on a story where James Hammond and Frankie meet up in the future. Maybe Byrne created Ann with the idea that she was Frankie's mother in mind but I think the FF origin of Frankie that Byrne gave us implied Frankie's mother was dead and that Phineas raised his step-daughter from the time she was an infant.

There are definitely holes in my theory granted. One big one is that Toro's widow Ann never lets on that Toro has a daughter with her or any other woman. But the stories where all this stuff played out had the filler for those holes already. While all this stuff was going on in Avengers West Coast about Wanda, Vision, James and Phineas we soon found Immortus was pulling all of their strings and had been from the very beginning. Even before that the real Phineas (the Phineas in AWC was retconned into being a space phantom) was kind of a dick who hypnotized his step-daughter and blocked her memories. So if Ann doesn't remember having a daughter with Toro that doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen she could have been made to forget by Phineas who kidnapped the child (Byrne's use of him in FF made me suspect this). Immortus could have set all of this in motion for some scheme down the road with Frankie (in one future timeline she does become Galactus successor so it's not like Frankie lacks significance). Heck maybe Frankie wasn't even raised by the real Phineas but the guy who raised her was a space phantom. Or maybe Toro just cheated on Ann with another woman, got her pregnant, and that woman was the one who married Phineas and not Ann and Frankie's mother really is dead.


One thing that has nothing to do with Frankie but I still find interesting. Toro's parents presumably named their son Thomas after Phineas. The Scarlet Witch named one of her twin sons Thomas also in honor of Phineas and at the time she thought Vision was the Golden Age Human Torch and I guess he kind of still is the golden age Human Torch. So I think it's interesting Wanda gave one of her sons the same first name as her husband's sidekick in a previous life.




http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArcWelding




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