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Post By
USAgentfan

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 2,623
In Reply To
plastic_soul

Subj: Re: Yikes
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 at 08:21:53 am EST (Viewed 125 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Yikes
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 at 12:31:25 pm EST (Viewed 131 times)



    Quote:
    And I actually have no problem with all of the #1 issues. I like the idea of a seasonal approach to books; to recognizing that each new creative team represents a new iteration or vision of a particular character. But the new #1s for everything after Secret Wars is pretty goofy - props to the Squirrel Girl team for bragging that this month's issue is "Only our second #1 so far this year"!


The problem you have with a new #1 every year is that it comes with yet another reinventing of the wheel, and usually a new creative team, and also a load more of that hyperbole I was talking about earlier. Personally I prefer a little continuity in both numbering, the direction of the character, and the creative input.


    Quote:
    I actually have to disagree. I don't think that Marvel Films (which is, after all, a completely separate corporate entity) is almost entirely uninterested in driving viewers to read Marvel comics. And I don't think that Disney really cares too much, either. Comics are small potatoes compared to MCU film audiences. And if Marvel comics really thought that their best route to growing the business was pulling in movie viewers then they'd likely not want to confuse them by having books that feature a black Captain America and a female Thor.


Well Marvel have pretty much said that this is what theyre doing.

They have commented that the problem with their product is that people who watch a movie or TV show are intimidated by the idea of picking up a comicbook because either the characters (such as Nick Fury) have no similarity to what they recognise, or titles have such a long and unwieldy histories that there is no natural jumping-on point for a new reader.

New #1's are predominantly for this reason. They are not for existing fans, they are for the benefit of potential new fans to make the transition easier and more natural for them. I can see the business sense in that, but as a long-time reader i find it very frustrating because everything seems geared towards dragging in new readers rather than retaining the existing ones.

You are right in one respect - comics ARE small potatoes at the moment - which is why Marvel are trying to better intergrate their product accross all mediums. Make no mistake, Marvel DO have the movie-goers in their sights. Marvel movies arent just about watching a film, they are about buying the T-shirt, getting the mobile game, buying your kids the playset or pajamas.....and picking up the comics book.

The tail is more and more wagging the dog.


    Quote:
    Rather, I think that the moves to mirror some of the MCU's b-list and c-list characters are being made because Marvel knows that basically 100% of its readers will now be familiar with the MCU renditions of those supporting characters. I know that when someone says "Nick Fury" that *I* immediately think of Nick Fury. Marvel has shown that they're not afraid to change their established characters; my guess is that the changes you've described are being made for the benefit of crossover reader/viewers like me.


And my issue with this as an existing fan is that those changes are in many ways superficial or inferior to what came before.

Nick Fury is the best example of this. Marvel have effectively erased a classic silver-age character from their history in order to replace him with a much less interesting character with ridiculous origin simply because he bears a superficial similarity to a famous actor who plays a character on the big screen, apparantly because they dont trust readers to be smart enough to understand how there can be a white and black Nick Fury in the Marvel Universe (In farness, the mess they made of Juniors origin story didnt make this any easier)

Thats the very definition of using a character as a 'marketing tool'


    Quote:
    That may be your impression, but it's certainly not the one I get from literally any of the Marvel books I've either picked up monthly since I started reading Marvel again in the last few years (Young Avengers, Thor: God of Thunder, Thor, Loki: Agent of Asgard, She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Storm, The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl) or the ones I've picked up in trades (Fraction's Hawkeye, Waid's Daredevil). So I don't know what to tell you.


And in fairness to yourself, the books you list fall into what I described earlier as 'smaller' or 'more niche', and I did give those types of books credit as the only place where creativity still runs unhindered.

It has been quite some time since anyone in an Avengers or X-Men title acted like a hero. For the most part they all spend their time being miserable, stabbing each other in the back or acting like arseholes.


    Quote:
    That's too bad. I know how you feel, probably: my interested dropped off and I ended up going 15+ years without buying any (superhero) comics. It might be worth checking out stuff from other companies? There's a lot of great work out there right now. \:\-\)


I read quite a bit from other publishers, but all that does is help confirm to me what a terrible job ?Marvel are doing with their product.

One of my favorites is IDW's Transformers franchise. In there 'More than Meets the Eye' book you have a title that has in the space of less than 50 issues managed to introduce compelling characters, gay relationships, interesting and capable female protagonists, and real world politics and absolutely nail it first time. Hell, the latest issue even manages to cover mental health.

The key to that titles success has been continuity in the creative team, not making a massive song and dance about the fact you have a gay robot or a female robot (if you just create a good character people will identify with it - you dont have to TELL them that youre trying to create a character they identify with), and trusting the reader. Its a 30 year old boys toy franchise that has all sections of the demographics pie falling over themselves to read, because people arent stupid - women, gays, ethnic minorities, the young - they know when theyre being patronized, when someones 'trying too hard' to please them, they know that 'diversity' isnt allowing a minority character the opportunity to wear an established characters duds for a few months. Meanwhile, white males like myself who have been reading Transformers since 1984 have no cause for complaint because the whole thing has been so well done.

Marvel have been fumbling these issues for years and cant seem to deal with any of them without patronizing the reader, forcing it in with a shoe-horn, or sounding like theyre preaching. Its ironic that a book about robots manages to do this in a much more 'organic' way.




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