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Subj: Re: Better than the original?
Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 at 06:13:47 am EST (Viewed 134 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Better than the original?
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 at 02:59:47 pm EST (Viewed 158 times)
Well, wouldn't you know it, but when I return to the board after the holidays it turns out there's a really interesting thread...
I would say re. the general subject that one has to be wary of declaring characters "better than their originals" just because they're newer. And there's a real danger of that happening because there simply are more stories featuring the "originals" than of the new "flavours of the year", and there are so (relatively) few stories featuring the latter that you haven't yet grown tired of them. (Exceptions to this rule occur when the original character is cancelled after a short while - most Golden Age characters were lucky if they continued to be published for as much as a decade - or gets killed off soon, e. g. the X-Men's Thunderbird I). When for every story featuring Amadeus Cho, Miles Morales or Laura Kinney you have fifty, a hundred or more stories featuring Bruce Banner, Peter Parker or Logan, there's simply no way for the older versions to keep dodging Sturgeon's Law.
Quote:I am not familiar enough with Laura Kinney, so it is possible. I like Ben Reilly, buy not more than Pete.
I'm not sure if Ben Reilly should even count in this context. For all practical intents and purposes he IS Peter Parker just with a different biography between the original and the second Clone Saga. For a time he was even written as if he was the original Peter Parker, and the differences between Earth-616 Peter and Ben are no bigger than between 616 Peter and many of his counterparts in alternate timelines.
Quote:As for the better replacements...
I think Bruce Banner is better than the original Hulk..,Xemnu. I know that is probably controversial.[
While I think the stories were better for Mar-Vell, I like Genis more as a character. Though, I do still really like Marv.
I never found Mar-Vell all that interesting a character (I think Silver and Bronze Age Mar-Vell derived a lot of his entertainment value from his connection with Rick Jones). For his high concept - character pulled out of a hat to enable Marvel to steal and keep the "Captain Marvel" trademark - I think Monica Rambeau is superior.
Quote:Were it up to me, both of the Vell kids would be gone, retroactively.
Quote:Harry Osborn, in my book, is a better Green Goblin than Norman.
Quote:Him being a Goblin is what ruined him as a character, imo.
He was good in his first two outings as the Goblin (in the 1970s), but from the third time it grew old. The problem is, though, that the Silver Age setup, where he was "the rich buddy who enables Peter to share a luxury apartment with him" became increasingly ludicrous, not to mention that their interpersonal dynamics could not help being affected by the events of ASM #121-122.
Quote:More of a Beta Ray Bill fan that Thor (no opinion of Jane Foster, good or bad).
Quote:As much as I like Bill, I think he's almost devoid of personality. When written well, Thor is great.
Never really warmed to Bill.
Quote:Thinking too much about Jane gets me really mad. Even now as Valkyrie.
Quote:Scott Lang is probably better than Hank Pym.
Quote:I used to say this, but those last few Ant-Man series really used him horribly, imo. And imo, Pym became better than Ant-Man.
I may agree with this...
Quote:The son out shined the original Zemo.
Quote:Well, yeah. That's pretty much his point.
It has to be said that it doesn't take much to outshine Baron Zemo Sr. ...
Quote:Spider-Gwen is actually interesting, unlike the original from 616.
Quote:Don't agree. Well, unless you include that Sins Past crap. Original Gwen was completely awesomeness. It still floors me that they turned her into a musician.
Original Gwen was pretty bland, if not to say boring as a character. Some people are misled into thinking she was more interesting than she was because she started out as Betty Brant's rich-bitch rival (assuming the role left vacant after Liz Allan's departure), but once she became Peter's primary love interest, she soon settled down into generic Silver Age Girlfriendness. She even repeated some stuff we had seen before with Betty (most notably blaming Spider-Man for the death of her closest relative), and in looks and mannerisms she became a copy of Mary Jane Watson. I prefer Spider-Gwen to 616 Gwen, but heeding my own cautionary remarks (see above), I have to admit I only know her from "Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse".
Quote:This might be a cheat, but I think the government sponsored X-Factor was better than the still excellent Louise Simonson created one, and the Madrox led Detective years were better than that.
"Original" X-Factor was merely X-Men Mk. Ib (the 1960s team was Mk. Ia), as such they were very much inferior to Mk. II, the post-GSXM #1 team. The government-sponsored team was as original as that word can be applied to a team consisting of former X-Men and New Mutants. Their later detective reincarnation ultimately disappointed my expectations, so I do not consider them better, or even equal, to the original government-sponsored team.
Quote:Well, agreed with that latter part. Government X-Factor may have been written well, but that doesn't mean the team was better. And I think Havok and Polaris were better not superheroing.
Quote:If you will indulge me with some DC ones...
Quote:Kyle Rayner, Alan Scott, and and John Stewart are all better than the most popular... Hal Jordan.
Quote:Wally West and Jay Garrick are both better than Barry Allen.
Quote:I still don't understand what people see in the original Alan Scott. I find him laughable, and Jade was better. Pretty much across the board, DC's Silver Age recreations were better, imo. Except for the cartoons, John has been an absolute nothing as a character, misused more than used well (almost to the point of it being offensive). Guy is probably second best GL. Replacing Hal is what drove me away from DC until his return.
Quote:The 90s... generally, can't stand much about it from either company... and Image.
Pretty much agree, allowing for a few exceptions such as the original Spider-Girl (Mayday Parker - even though I do not consider her superior to her father as a character) and Impulse.
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