Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Marvel Universe >> View Post
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Post By
Ancient One 
Manager

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 7,613
In Reply To
Quantum

Member Since: Sun Dec 21, 2008
Posts: 2,228
Subj: Re: Look at it this way.
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 at 07:48:16 pm EDT (Viewed 140 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Look at it this way.
Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 at 03:16:08 pm EDT (Viewed 118 times)



    Quote:
    Now I have to disagree, lol.


Lol! 'Tis the spice of life!


    Quote:
    I do think that most things have a flipside, though. And the flipside here is that Marvel could do something like the Annihilation, Civil War or Sins Past, things that would not have worked in pre Nu-Marvel, and those are fun ideas that I enjoy.


I can't speak for Annihilation, which I've never read, but the other two are poster children for why continuity should stand, in my book.
Civil War was a good idea, but a lousy execution, but Sins Past was just start to finish awful.


    Quote:
    But new readers will never do that. They can't. They can't tolerate the art or the dialog of older comics. Anything pre-80's is anathema to them. up to late 90's even. They aren't interested.


Oh, you'd be surprised. I'm active on Facebook groups dedicated to Epic Collections and Omnibus', and we have a good number of younger members who buy the silver and bronze age material and enjoy it, especially popular characters like Spider-Man and X-Men.

One of the things that's blown my mind is: The Epic Collection that practically no one wanted to get before it came out, has become one of the most popular series with members of all ages there. The Moench/Gulacy Master of Kung Fu run. It's everything that SHOULDN'T work for today's audience. Plot heavy, dialogue heavy and old style art. And yet it's sold (Within the group) on word of mouth, initially with old farts like me promoting it, but practically everyone who's taken a chance on it loves it. The 80's Moon Knight material has also proven very popular.


    Quote:
    It's a new readership and it's multimedia and everything is online and easy to find. And if you don't want to read the stuff, you can just read about all of it on Wikipedia. The zoomers aren't going to spend 45 minutes going through dollar boxes. They aren't going to suffer through an Al Milgrom job or a Don Perlin job out of love for the story.


Just try getting hold of the three volumes of the Werewolf by Night Complete Collection, or the WbN omnibus. You have a hard time finding them at scalper's prices, and a near impossible task at cover. Perlin is the main artist on that series, yet we get as many younger readers demanding a reprint as older ones.


    Quote:
    But onto where we disagree: Keith Giffen on Legion.


(Dons crash helmet. Puts on boxing gloves)


    Quote:
    To me, Keith Giffen revelled in Legion history, he brought it all to life and had fun with it.


Giffen thinks it's the worst team in superhero history. He has no respect for it, the characters, their powers, the situations, and he's even derogatory towards it's fans.

I honestly believe he lobbied hard for the book when Levitz left believing that DC would let him do whatever he wanted with such a niche title. When he found out he was wrong he threw a hissy fit and left the book (Blowing up the Earth in a fit of pique as a final middle finger to editorial, the book and it's fans). Take a look at this interview with Giffen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTxnrms9C94&t=962s

It's hard to believe that someone this dismissive of everything about the Legion could ever have wanted to work on the book at all.


    Quote:
    To me, it wasn't Giffen that threw out their continuity. That was DC's powers that be, and they did most of it when they acceded to Byrne's wishes and erased Superboy from Legion history, and then came up with that "pocket universe" thing that no one could ever like. Keith, after COIE, was just rolling with the punches as best as he could, and he still had a lot of fun with it and made it fun for me.


The 'pocket universe' was probably the only way out of that situation while leaving the Legion's history intact. And it did remain intact. The Crisis hit in issues 16 - 18 of volume 3, and the Legion sails merrily on for over three and a half years unchanged. And it would have continued thus had it not been for Keith Giffen.

He admits in the above interview that he clashed with editorial from day one of his taking over the book. And within four issues he'd so angered the editors of the Superman books that they got an injunction against him using Superman in the book at all. Even retroactively.

What the hell did he want to do to Superman that made the editors take such a drastic step?

No, Giffen was the prime mover in destroying Legion continuity.


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