Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

Marvel Universe >> View Post
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Post By
Quantum

Member Since: Sun Dec 21, 2008
Posts: 2,220
In Reply To
Superman's Pal
Moderator

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Posts: 5,298
Subj: Re: Look at it this way.
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 at 12:57:06 am EDT (Viewed 92 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Look at it this way.
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 at 06:35:31 pm EDT (Viewed 95 times)

Previous Post


    Quote:
    I don't think it was a good idea for Marvel to adopt DC's fluid and constantly changing continuity style.

As a DC fan, I don't think it was good idea for DC either. Having said that, I always maintain that Crisis on Infinite Earths was one of my first exposure's to DC after I became a serious comic reader and I thought it was the greatest story ever told in comics. I can see why the old timers didn't like doing away with the multiverse at that time. But if you go back, even splitting their history into Earth-1 and -2 back in the 1960s was a serious retcon of printed history that didn't make a whole lot of sense.

But once you go as big as you can with Crisis, which was really the biggest publishing event they ever did and I'm not sure anything they've done since as really ever topped it, I think it's foolish to keep trying to repeat it. And rebooting the entire company just to satisfy one or two creators who don't want to do their homework or "be held prisoner by all the bad stories of the past" seems foolish.

I'm never in favor of cancelling a series to make way for the remake, because it limits story possibilities. With continuity you can tell new stories or build upon old ones. If you get rid of the old ones, you have just halved your story possibilities.


    Quote:
    You and I loved hearing about past continuity and finding those stories, and building our knowledge base with each new and fun discovery (I think the first such fun discovery for me when I was just starting reading comics was learning that there had been a team called the Defenders, and that it was the Hulk, Namor, the Surfer, and Dr. Strange).


Even at DC I always liked when they would leave footnotes. When a character would appear there'd be a little box at the bottom of the panel saying "this character was last seen ..." and give the issue number. I hated when that went away. If they'd moved that kind of notation to the letters page I'd have been okay with that, but then they dropped the letters pages. Which was a sad day.

What was odd that even sometimes after the Crisis they'd footnote a character's old Pre-Crisis appearances. I spent lot of time hunting through the LCS for back issues so I could see the backstory. I'm sure they stopped doing that because they'd rather the fans buy a new TPB of the same story.


    Quote:
    But new readers will never do that. They can't. They can't tolerate the art or the dialog of older comics. Anything pre-80's is anathema to them. up to late 90's even. They aren't interested.

The more exposed to it they are, the more they get used to it. As a child of the '80s really, I used to find it hard to watch stuff even from the '70s. I remember once trying to watch Dirty Harry so I could watch the whole series and I just couldn't do it. A few years later I watched it and didn't even notice any datedness. I can go back to the 30s now on film, and while I see the difference, it doesn't bother me.

Having grown up on 80s comics I found at some point that I could go back to the 60s without much shock, but Golden Age stuff seemed alien to me, the artwork and writing style. It's still not my favorite but I'm more used to it now. Anyone can get used to anything, I think.


    Quote:
    It's a new readership and it's multimedia and everything is online and easy to find. And if you don't want to read the stuff, you can just read about all of it on Wikipedia. The zoomers aren't going to spend 45 minutes going through dollar boxes. They aren't going to suffer through an Al Milgrom job or a Don Perlin job out of love for the story.

I shouldn't admit this but ... I did find some sites a while back for downloading old comics. I was able to go through tons of old stuff I'd never be able to track down at the LCS. Someone is obviously maintaining this stuff in digital form, and I'm sure at least some of them are Zoomers.


    Quote:
    To me, it wasn't Giffen that threw out their continuity. That was DC's powers that be, and they did most of it when they acceded to Byrne's wishes and erased Superboy from Legion history, and then came up with that "pocket universe" thing that no one could ever like. Keith, after COIE, was just rolling with the punches as best as he could, and he still had a lot of fun with it and made it fun for me.

Didn't Byrne even say that ditching Superboy was not his idea, that it came from above?

Did Keith even write LSH solo? I thought he was always co-writing with the Bierbaums, or were they later?


>> As a DC fan, I don't think it was good idea for DC either. Having said that, I always maintain that Crisis on Infinite Earths was one of my first exposure's to DC after I became a serious comic reader and I thought it was the greatest story ever told in comics.


That's about the same as me then. I started reading DC comics a few months before COIE started and I loved it then, and I appreciate and love it even more now.

>> But once you go as big as you can with Crisis, which was really the biggest publishing event they ever did and I'm not sure anything they've done since has really ever topped it, I think it's foolish to keep trying to repeat it.

I was able to follow DC continuity up to the "New Earth" that was created after Infinite Crisis. But they threw THAT New Earth away VERY quickly. Whatever they have done since launching the New 52 as far as a Divergence and a Convergence and a New Earth and a Dark Metalverse and now this "Future State" thing... I don't know what any of that is, and I'm no longer invested enough to find out. DC was addicted to the attention they got from their reboots and they ended up in a state of permanent reboot, and nothing matters anymore. They just do whatever and they twist the characters to just be whatever.

>>> Didn't Byrne even say that ditching Superboy was not his idea, that it came from above?

I think so. I may be bringing some of my bias into laying it all at his feet, but it really does seem like the kind of thing he really gets into doing, coming onto a title and throwing out it's past history, as if the talent handling the books before he came along just didn't matter.

>>> Did Keith even write LSH solo? I thought he was always co-writing with the Bierbaums, or were they later?

As I remember, right at first, the 5 Years Later relaunch was just Keith writing and then the Bierbaums came in and co-plotted with him, eventually taking it over right around the time they introduced the 2nd title for the batch of young Legionnaires clones.


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