Dave Galanter
December 1st 1969 - December 12th 2020
He was loved.

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Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
Grey Gargoyle

Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
Subj: Re: What I understood [BIG SPOILER]
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 at 09:34:41 am EDT (Viewed 64 times)
Reply Subj: What I understood [BIG SPOILER]
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 at 07:06:58 am EDT (Viewed 74 times)


    The film is a spin-off of Winter Soldier, Civil War & Agent Carter.

I see Winter Soldier a bit more than AC, but sure. Just finished AC.

    The disk contains informations about the biochemicals that were used by HYDRA to obtain the mental conditioning of the Winter Soldiers.

Which I think they stole from SHIELD. A comment was made that he destroyed the other versions and kept the last disc.

    It is not explicitely said but some of the events of the movie (the theft of the disk and Operation Budapest) are probably connected to a secret war between HYDRA (Alexander Pierce) & LEVIATHAN (Dreykov).


    Melina is at the same time the scientist who re-engineered the process for Dreykov and one of the first Black Widows that were submitted to it. It is also clear that's the case of Yelena as well. Both Black Widows have been aware of their own servitude for a long time.

    In the case of the Black Widow Program, the biochemicals don't stop you from thinking whatever you want but they stop you from doing anything that might be potentially harmful to your handlers.

Yes, but they are mentioned as pherimonal. I did not see the link between the brainwashing and the pheramones. They were related but different. That sort of thing requires smell which requires you to be close.

    During Operation Budapest, Natasha found the one & only way to circumvent the problem: she asked Hawkeye to blow up the building where Dreykov's daughter was, hoping that it would kill Dreykov himself at the same time.

I did not understand it that way, what Dracov told her is that a pheromonal compound protected him from his troops. And to kill him you had to severe your nerve to smell. Meaning if you are out of smell range there is no reason you could not kill them.

At least as I understood it. Unless this was the difference between Nat and the others that were chemically controlled.

    Everything seems logical, right?

    And, yet, when I think about the trajectories of Natasha & Dreykov from Operation Budapest to 2016, my gut tell me that there's something wrong or, at the very least, something that I don't understand (for example, does Natasha suffer from unexplained selective amnesia?)... The facts, the behaviour of the characters, their career, their personality... In my head, it doesn't match up... I would need more precise information to understand the internal clock of the movie and to appreciate its plot. That's why I think it is incoherent.

I mean I can see that, I was not always clear as to the timeline but thought it was clear enough generally.

    There is one main character whose internal clock I understand... Yelena. In her case, I have no problem at all.

    Actually, in my opinion, the best part of the movie is the beginning, in Ohio. I wish that the movie would have been like this all the time. And this part was important to make me understand who is Yelena.

I enjoyed that too, was a little surprised it was not played a bit more but it is harder to have that be more of an action piece.

    There's something funny: I reimagined the story without the involvement of Natasha, Rick Mason, Taskmaster and Ross. I didn't include the episode of Operation Budapest at all... With a few arrangements, it works. Lol! actually, in my case, it works much better! \:\-D

I think the Budapest thing seems stranger to me. They commented in one of the Avengers movies that this is like Budapest and Hawkeye says something like you and I remember that very differently.

She remembered it really wrong if it was hiding in a vent, staking out and blowing up somebody compared to fighting an alien invasion.

Look Raist bunnies...
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