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Post By
ARCHNEMESIS

In Reply To
dave

Subj: Re: Agreed. Numerous problems
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 at 09:20:04 pm EDT
Reply Subj: Re: Agreed. Numerous problems
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 at 07:33:36 pm EDT

Previous Post

> Agreed on a lot of points. I also didn't understand the whole section with Harry getting his memory back, capturing MJ and making her break up with Pete. At first I thought that plot point was going to go somewhere, but it really served no purpose. MJ could have broken up with Peter on her own, she didn't need Harry to do whatever he did off panel to scare her into doing it and then going about her business, never again mentioning or thinking about the fact that her best friend is a superpowered supervillain.
>

I guess he just wanted to hurt Peter. It was a little odd though. Not enough time left for that.

> i dislike most of the supervillains in this movie. Sandman reminded me a little too much of Mr. Freeze from Batman and Robin, complete with the gratuitious moment of "character building" where they justify killing multiple cops and the attempted murder of a defenseless woman because he needed to save his daughter. All that...and we don't even know if he saved her, or if she can be saved.
>

When did he kill anybody?

> Venom reminded me too much of The Riddler, with weak motivation for deciding to become a murderer. He didn't get any real screen time and just seemed a bit like the Evil Superman from Superman III.
>

I hate to break it to you Venom fans, but he always had a weak motivation to become a murderer. I mean Venom was killing cops even when he was pretending to be a good guy.

> Harry easily had the most potential of any of the characters in the movie, but the whole amnesia angle was just ridiculous and unnecessary. Again, there's no real purpose served by having him lose his amnesia that could have been served by him just continuing to play a dual role, one for Peter and one for MJ. He could have been FANTASTIC, playing them against each other and manipulating Spider-Man like his father did. Instead, he just came across as something of a characterization mess overall. He's goofy good, he's crazy evil, he's subtle manpulative, he's Spidey's sidekick! Pick one.
>

While I agree that the amnesia thing is lame in movies, it did remind us that Harry really is a good friend. It wasn't so apparent in the other movies. Also, I think people would have been bored if this were just another goblin movie.

> I enjoyed the movie, and that's what makes it so frustrating. If it just sucked outright, I could have just written it off like every other bad superhero movie out there. Instead, I felt a profound sense of disappointment, knowing that everything it needed to be BETTER than the other two was right there. But then the Raimi that I feared all along finally showed himself. The Army of Darkness Raimi, King of High Camp.
>

Ok, I really liked Army of Darkness. Hilarious.


> > Agreed on a lot of points. I also didn't understand the whole section with Harry getting his memory back, capturing MJ and making her break up with Pete. At first I thought that plot point was going to go somewhere, but it really served no purpose. MJ could have broken up with Peter on her own, she didn't need Harry to do whatever he did off panel to scare her into doing it and then going about her business, never again mentioning or thinking about the fact that her best friend is a superpowered supervillain.
> >
>
> I guess he just wanted to hurt Peter. It was a little odd though. Not enough time left for that.
>
> > i dislike most of the supervillains in this movie. Sandman reminded me a little too much of Mr. Freeze from Batman and Robin, complete with the gratuitious moment of "character building" where they justify killing multiple cops and the attempted murder of a defenseless woman because he needed to save his daughter. All that...and we don't even know if he saved her, or if she can be saved.
> >
>
> When did he kill anybody?

I don't think that cop he knocked out of the truck and through the windshield of the car was getting up anytime soon...or ever.

> > Venom reminded me too much of The Riddler, with weak motivation for deciding to become a murderer. He didn't get any real screen time and just seemed a bit like the Evil Superman from Superman III.
> >
>
> I hate to break it to you Venom fans, but he always had a weak motivation to become a murderer. I mean Venom was killing cops even when he was pretending to be a good guy.

I actually agree with you on this. I like my bad guys to be either really complex characters, or totally unabashedly evil. Venom, even in the comicbook, just felt like a weak effort to give someone a motive to become homicidal. Sandman in the movie was another weak effort, like, "Hey, we need to add a sympathy angle to this guy because that's what we do here at Marvel, where nobody is truly evil". I would have been just as happy with Sandman being a career thief who saw the acquisition of powers to be a great way to rob banks and not get caught.


>
> > Harry easily had the most potential of any of the characters in the movie, but the whole amnesia angle was just ridiculous and unnecessary. Again, there's no real purpose served by having him lose his amnesia that could have been served by him just continuing to play a dual role, one for Peter and one for MJ. He could have been FANTASTIC, playing them against each other and manipulating Spider-Man like his father did. Instead, he just came across as something of a characterization mess overall. He's goofy good, he's crazy evil, he's subtle manpulative, he's Spidey's sidekick! Pick one.
> >
>
> While I agree that the amnesia thing is lame in movies, it did remind us that Harry really is a good friend. It wasn't so apparent in the other movies. Also, I think people would have been bored if this were just another goblin movie.

Why? Magneto was the bad guy in two of three X-men movies. Besides, it wouldn't have been a Goblin movie...it would have been a Harry Osborne's last stand movie. Like the way Peter and Harry fought out of costume several times. I thought that was one of the highlights of the movie.

Also, I think it was definitely possible to remind the audience that Harry is a good friend in deep turmoil simply by having him sit down and start to question why someone as heroic as Spider-Man would do something like that while uncovering more of his father's own terrible deeds. It creates genuine conflict as he calls into question what he actually knows about what happened that night.

> > I enjoyed the movie, and that's what makes it so frustrating. If it just sucked outright, I could have just written it off like every other bad superhero movie out there. Instead, I felt a profound sense of disappointment, knowing that everything it needed to be BETTER than the other two was right there. But then the Raimi that I feared all along finally showed himself. The Army of Darkness Raimi, King of High Camp.
> >
>
> Ok, I really liked Army of Darkness. Hilarious.
>


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