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Post By
The Green Ninjas

In Reply To
Fisk

Subj: So much larger than life
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 08:37:50 pm EDT (Viewed 138 times)
Reply Subj: Re: He's on his way, he's making it.
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 09:01:36 am EDT (Viewed 18 times)

Previous Post


    Quote:
    > This just looks like too much like the Byrne reboot era for my tastes but I will give it the benefit of doubt now because Slott is my favourite Spidey writer since the Human Torch mini.



    Quote:
    It does look painfully like the "TriCorp" job, doesn't it? I wonder if Peter will have an equally improbably diverse group of co-workers. Or if he'll manage to show up to work more than twice this time.


TriCorp job? Now that was a real stinker. How many Politically Correct Stereotypes were working there?
It would be much better if 1. Pete goes back teaching or 2. works as an assistant for fantastic Four.


    Quote:
    > And as much as I hate the art of Ramos, I gotta admit this grey faced Hobgoblin looks just badass. Let's keep on praying that it's Kingsley lifted back to stardom and not a resurrected Macandale or a brand new noname.



    Quote:
    The opposite of what you just said is what I want, I am here for Team Jason. Given that it's the unmasking-as-Rod that effectively destroyed Hobgoblin as an "appears ever year" villain, and given that we have a Norman Osborn, and he's awesome, I really don't understand why anyone would prefer to have the poor man's Norman back.



    Quote:
    I get people's love for the mystery years, even if I don't share it, I really do get it, I just can't comprehend for the life of me, how anyone at all, let alone the majority of the online Spidey fandom, saw the unmasking as Rod and thought "Yeah! That evil fashion designer/z-list obscurity/horrific gay stereotype? That's a great villain! More of that guy, please!", any more so than anyone didn't think Bart Hamilton was a great guy to be Green Goblin #3.


My love also stems from the mystery years but I think a good writer would be able to do magnificient stories with old Roddie. Tom DeFalco comes to my mind: in Spider-girl he was real frigthening. And I always preferred Kingsley over Osborn. Normie is just too insane for me...
And I liked-liked Jason as Jack O' Lantern. What would you say if he were to return as old Pumpkinhead instead of a cybernetic Goblin?

> > It does look painfully like the "TriCorp" job, doesn't it? I wonder if Peter will have an equally improbably diverse group of co-workers. Or if he'll manage to show up to work more than twice this time.

> TriCorp job? Now that was a real stinker. How many Politically Correct Stereotypes were working there?

At least four or five, not counting the one that was a jerk to Peter from Day One, but was technically right about him all along since he never bothered going to his job. No wonder you ended up sleeping on the streets, Spider-Man.

> It would be much better if 1. Pete goes back teaching or 2. works as an assistant for fantastic Four.

Or just gets the Avengers to pay him a wage so he doesn't need a day job, the way guys like Captain America and Hawkeye live.

OK, from a real-world perspective, it would totally kill any "Peter struggles in his attempts to make ends meet" drama, and remove him from most, if not all, of his civilian life, but he IS right there on both Avengers teams now, the question should at least be raised, and answered as to why he'd rather struggle every day than live like that.

> > The opposite of what you just said is what I want, I am here for Team Jason. Given that it's the unmasking-as-Rod that effectively destroyed Hobgoblin as an "appears ever year" villain, and given that we have a Norman Osborn, and he's awesome, I really don't understand why anyone would prefer to have the poor man's Norman back.

> > I get people's love for the mystery years, even if I don't share it, I really do get it, I just can't comprehend for the life of me, how anyone at all, let alone the majority of the online Spidey fandom, saw the unmasking as Rod and thought "Yeah! That evil fashion designer/z-list obscurity/horrific gay stereotype? That's a great villain! More of that guy, please!", any more so than anyone didn't think Bart Hamilton was a great guy to be Green Goblin #3.

> My love also stems from the mystery years but I think a good writer would be able to do magnificient stories with old Roddie. Tom DeFalco comes to my mind: in Spider-girl he was real frigthening.

I still have the last two Spider-Girl issues to read, but honestly, it's just kind of jarring how he was beeing written as far so much more skilled, powerful and hyper-competant than he ever was in the 1980s (where he'd usually be losing fights, but escape due to luck and/or elaborate plans to get away). It kind of feels like Tom was giving readers the 1980s Hobgoblin that their nostalgia remembered and wanted, rather than the way he really was.

But even there, once the mask comes off, there's not really anything interesting about Rod as a character. It's notable that in Spider-Girl, he's always been more of a wild-card element in the ongoing wars between crime lords, rather than driving the plot in his own right.

> And I always preferred Kingsley over Osborn. Normie is just too insane for me...

Norman's only as insane, or not, as a story needs him to be. 90% of the time he's holding it together, and he's been reinvented as THE evil genius long-term-plotter of the books, but we always know eventually he's going to flip out and go nuts and then you never know what it's going to be like, whether it'll be glorious like the Thunderbolts Monologue, or awful like The Final Chapter.

In contrast, not only is Rod not going to go foaming-at-the-mouth crazy at any point (well, unless someone does an "it happens to everyone who uses Goblin Formula eventually" story), but they've also retconned away his intense feud with Spidey as having been all Brainwashed Ned, the idea being that Rod couldn't care less about Spidey, so long as the guy stays out of his way (evidently people love that, but I really can't see how it's any aid to making the guy a recurring Spidey villain).

Add in the facts that we still have no explanation for his motivation. Norman's crazy, but what drives a _sane_ man who's legitimately rich to become a supervillain so he can make money (surely less than he already gets legally) through crime, blackmail and extortion?

All of this just killed any interest I ever had in the original Hobgoblin, and someone would really have to do a lot of backstory/motivation-insertion to make Rod a compelling character in his own right, AND come up with a way to get him fighting Peter, and specifically Peter. It's unsurprising everyone just opted to use Norman instead.

Really, Marvel flat-out missed their best opportunity to bring Rod back as the villain of a Dark Avengers/Iron Patriot story, with Norman using his position to take the time to hunt some old foes down.

> And I liked-liked Jason as Jack O' Lantern. What would you say if he were to return as old Pumpkinhead instead of a cybernetic Goblin?

Honestly, they could bring him back in any identity at all (well, within reason), I just want him back in action. Fifteen years of hurt is fifteen too many.


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