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Post By
The Green Ninjas

In Reply To
Jeremiah Ecks

Subj: Re: Nightwatch Appreciation Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 at 08:28:11 pm EST (Viewed 133 times)
Reply Subj: Nightwatch
Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 at 06:39:19 pm EST (Viewed 173 times)

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Remember Todd McFarlane's Spawn? Remember when Marvel, a) smarting because McFarlane had given them the finger, and b) Spawn was being successful, decided to homage (i.e. blatantly rip off) Spawn into a new character called Nightwatch, and he debuted in a Terry Kavanagh comic (which was a sequel to a Howard Mackie 'epic' - so basically, Nightwatch was doomed to fail from the start). Oh, and Nightwatch also starred in Maximum Carnage. Seriously, the guy didn't get a break - and when he did get a solo series, he debuted in the mad 90's where series were being created and cancelled like wild-fire.

I'm not defending Nightwatch, by the way - he wasn't very interesting, and I would have preferred to have had a Cardiac series to love, but times' a great healer. Anyway, my question is this:

Nightwatch died in The Clone Saga. It was a pretty ignoble end, dying in an issue of Spidey Unlimited and killed by perennial jobber El Toro Negro (so, he debuted in mediocrity, he lived in mediocrity and he died in mediocrity too).

The problem is, Nightwatch can't die - in his origin story, it is revealed that the future version of Nightwatch came back in time to give powers to his earlier self. Now, ignoring the massive paradox this causes (where the hel did Nightwatch's powers originally come from anyway?), a further paradox is caused by Nightwatch dying... and never being able to come back in time and... etc. Sure, we can say it was Nightwatch 615 who came to 616 and gave Trench his powers... but it seems a bit cheap, even if it is a catch-all.

Several Wiki's say this:
Nightwatch survived but knew he had been fatally wounded, and used the last of his costume's power to go back and time and try to warn his past self of what would happen, to keep him from meeting this ignoble end, and try to prevent his girlfriend's death in the process. Ultimately, he got sucked into a fight with terrorists and ended up fulfilling the time loop, dying before he could warn himself.

Now, I like this explanation as it's tidy and makes sense to me. The thing is, I can't find a single shred of evidence to back it up, and Wiki-Whatever isn't exactly reliable as far as sources go.

Can anybody help me here and a) tell me how Nightwatch got his powers, beyond 'future self' (so where did the 'future self' get them?) and b) whether this above scenario really happened, or did Nightwatch's death create a massive plot hole that will never be resolved (well, it's as likely to be resolved as Who is F.A.C.A.D.E?).

-Jeremiah Ecks,
who would love to do more posts on obscure Spidey characters. Just to put smiles on our faces. Cardiac next, please. \:\)


I have a bizarre, morbid-fascination with Nightwatch, despite his debut storyline literally making my brain hurt.

I tracked down his entire solo series the other year, but I still have to get around to reading it all, which I need to make time to do, because the final issues have that 'Warbringer' guy who's just so 1990s it's awesome.

But remember how he randomly showed up towards the end of Maximum Carnage? And in the final chapter, he and Morbius are just sitting on a rooftop? I know I'd buy a Nightwatch & Morbius book. Especially if they just sit on rooftops and complain about their lives.

> Nightwatch died in The Clone Saga. It was a pretty ignoble end, dying in an issue of Spidey Unlimited and killed by perennial jobber El Toro Negro (so, he debuted in mediocrity, he lived in mediocrity and he died in mediocrity too).

I did actually like that issue, despite it killing Nightwatch, and Polestar. The reveal of who was sponsoring Spidey in 'The Great Game' was nice, and El Toro Rojo got an impressively nasty comeuppance.

Isn't that also the issue where Robbie sees Peter and Spidey-Ben together and was all shocked, like he thought he had it all figured out?

> The problem is, Nightwatch can't die - in his origin story, it is revealed that the future version of Nightwatch came back in time to give powers to his earlier self. Now, ignoring the massive paradox this causes (where the hel did Nightwatch's powers originally come from anyway?), a further paradox is caused by Nightwatch dying... and never being able to come back in time and... etc. Sure, we can say it was Nightwatch 615 who came to 616 and gave Trench his powers... but it seems a bit cheap, even if it is a catch-all.

> Several Wiki's say this:
> Nightwatch survived but knew he had been fatally wounded, and used the last of his costume's power to go back and time and try to warn his past self of what would happen, to keep him from meeting this ignoble end, and try to prevent his girlfriend's death in the process. Ultimately, he got sucked into a fight with terrorists and ended up fulfilling the time loop, dying before he could warn himself.

> Now, I like this explanation as it's tidy and makes sense to me. The thing is, I can't find a single shred of evidence to back it up, and Wiki-Whatever isn't exactly reliable as far as sources go.

> Can anybody help me here and a) tell me how Nightwatch got his powers, beyond 'future self' (so where did the 'future self' get them?) and b) whether this above scenario really happened,

Well, it's certainly not ever been addressed in a comic, but it might have been done in a handbook, for the sake of wrapping up the time-loop, but nothing I've ever seen would suggest Nightwatch was capable of time-travel under his own power.

> or did Nightwatch's death create a massive plot hole that will never be resolved (well, it's as likely to be resolved as Who is F.A.C.A.D.E?).

I'm going with "Nightwatch's death left the time-loop incomplete, ripping a hole in the fabric of space/time, that will gradually grow to consume the planet".


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