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Post By
Jon Clark

In Reply To

Subj: Re: God-like Superman vs. infinite Superman (a topic, not a fight)
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 at 03:14:05 pm EST
Reply Subj: God-like Superman vs. infinite Superman (a topic, not a fight)
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 11:57:21 pm EST

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When it comes to story, who allows room to create a plot, why god-like Superman, because even Denny O'Neil (1971) once said that he grew too powerful to be a interesting character as well as the writers who were interviewed by that special Death of Superman Wizard special simply because an infinite Superman left hardly any room for suspence when it came to the hero being beaten by the villian by more then two things (kryptonite and red solar enegy) and the god-like Superman was someone who could be beaten by more then those two things and be one of the most powerful beings on earth which made him feared by the villians, while infinite Superman made you wonder whats the point with a guy who was super this and super that with no limitations? What's the point having other super-heroes or teams if one man could wipe out all super-crimes faster then the speed of light? What's the point of Luthor trying to take him down when he's a joke compare to infinitie Superman?

Please, no "because he's Superman" reasons, because that's more like but-kissing.

With a god-like Superman, the stories become more interesting, although there are now writers like Joe Casey who says post-crisis Superman can re-arrange the solar system and tear a star apart when unencumbered by mental blocks which shows that he more focused on cheap gimmicks that leave alot of damage for the future, then acually writing something called a plot that has a strong opening that pulls the readers into the story that's believable and have clearly defined personalities and motivations on why there still must be a Superman since an infinitive one should have wiped out super-crime and keep it that way thereby becoming a most powerful being in the universe with nothing to do. Something that says that the readers' brains are bigger then a pea and that they want writing that's says that life isn't a picture in black and white, that complex situations and relationships are only believable, only works, for a god-like Superman.

Supergirl didn't have any mental blocks and she was only a little more powerful then Superman because she was reckless. Yes, she's still a minor, but her powers were prematuraly fully developed.

A story, based on a continueing series, has to make sense or it's not a good story. I doubt the new generation readers will be worshipping Superman like the older ones and the people of DC, including the writers with the ego trips at the conventions, need to realize this and stop with the cheap gimmicks of making the hero too perfect or rebooting to make the job too easy for the writers that it makes them lazy.

The villians need a possible, a real one, chance of defeating the hero, there has to be a reasonable situation that explains why someone like Superman can't handle all the problems and why he joined the JLA without feeling insulted by the writer, and that there are people on earth and somewhere in the universe that rivals or surpasses Superman to make it feel like the DC universe is alot bigger then a broom closet.

You made a lot of good points, Sandman. I agree with them for the most part...but...

I think the fault lies in the writers more than the concept. They look at Superman and go "If I can't have my guy outmuscle him then where's the suspense". As if the only way to lose is to be physically beaten up.

Look at the Post-Crisis take on Lex Luthor- Superman can have any power level you want to give him and he still can't beat a guy unless he can prove the guy committed a crime. It got overdone in Lex's case (IMO), but you can get some mileage out of Superman being limited by the law- a few villians like Lex who are hard to connect to crimes or like Marvel's Dr Doom who have some immunity to prosecution.

And Superman isn't psychic. If he arrives at the scene of a crime he can stop it, but he can't stop things he doesn't know about. So the first attack of a villian can always succeed if they don't telegraph it. And any lateer schemes can succeed if they either are unexpected or if they are plotted out so while Superman is dealing with one scheme he is prevented from stopping another.

You also can play up that as "super" as Superman is, the rest of the universe is still affected by physics. Superman might be able to fly around the world a dozen times in a second, but if he needs to carry something with him he might be limited to a speed where the item he is carrying won't burn up from friction.
Even if you assemble the wall at super-speed doesn't it still take time for the cemenet holding the bricks in place to dry?
The bomb Superman shrugs off without noticing might destroy the city, planet, solar system...
Juggling planets is easy- keeping the planets and everything on them from being destroyed in the process, not so easy.

I think the main problem with most writers is they make the plot focus on Superman as the target rather than on the bad guy having a scheme that has a goal other than defeating Superman. A goal that Superman has to prevent. A goal that might not be an obvious threat (Lex's hidden agenda), a goal that might be hard to stop ( Superman doesn't know when or where to apply his powers), or a goal that you simply can't hit until it falls down (somehing where his pwers can't directly impact the threat).

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