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Post By
rc

In Reply To
Teletran

Subj: Re: Question for RC
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 at 11:46:51 am EST
Reply Subj: Question for RC
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 at 11:26:12 am EST

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Hello RC,

Since you're quite the Superman fan, I have questions for you:

How "powerful" do you think Superman should really be? Would it be similar to the "pre-crisis" Superman that can spin a planet on his fingertip type of strong?

For all of Superman's superfeats, here's my personal perspective:
1. A Superman who can never ever lose to Hulk in a pure strength contest no matter how mad Hulk can get to the point of Hulk having a heart attack from rage already.
2. A Superman who only has these three weaknesses: Kryptonite, No Yellow Sun (or Red Sun type of radiation), and Magic.
3. As a Thorfan, I never see Thor winning against an out for blood super blitzing Superman amidst my perspective of Superman having weakness to magic.

Original Superman thoughts:

Kryptonite is simple... just too many stories of any tom, dick, and harry lugging one around to make Supes go all faint in the corny issues.

Red Sun - well, take away his powers and well, that's it.

Magic -> Ah... this is where there's a big difference. My version is that Mjolnir should extremely hurt Superman if Thor hurls it at him at full strength with Superman down for the count or dead. My view is that a magic sword can cut Superman just as a normal sword can cut through a normal human. Superman getting bitten by dracula also falls in this category of weakness to magic/supernatural.

Pure power -> ah.. now this.. where the Hulk is a prime example of extreme strength -> I still honestly believe that Superman should outmuscle Hulk and Thor at the same time. Superman is just that strong.

Byrne Superman thoughts:

This is where the pure power is questionable -> Seems Supes is kinda like in the "class 100" level as Thor belongs to. I think this was made to make Superman "interesting" since he was just so unbeatable before sans the three weaknesses which is quite corny like yellow was to Green Lantern.

Current Superman:

Now this is where my question is. Which Superman is this now? From Byrne going back to the original unbeatable Superman but can resist Kryptonite (up up and away), has a battery charge before running out when subjected to Red Sun radiation (infinite crisis), and resists/laughs off magic (like SBP did against Black Adam)?

Is this really Superman now? If so, JLA/Avengers shouldn't have lasted more than a single panel because Superman should have outpunched/outsped/outlasted anything out there. Mjolnir truly would have been cut in half with his fart.

Don't get me wrong. I like Superman too though I just like Marvel's universe better than DC's in general. Only DC I like are mostly from the Superfriends related ones (Supes, Bats, WW, GL, Flash). I'm just sad that Thor is still "dead" back in Marvel. I hope he returns really fresh from being King Thor who has the power to destroy a planet accidentally by touching it with his finger then go to more interesting levels in the next issues.

> Hello RC,
>
> Since you're quite the Superman fan, I have questions for you:
>
> How "powerful" do you think Superman should really be?

While I have my preferences, ultimately it has to be the level of power at which a writer can generate a good story.

I prefer a powerful Superman -- big power, big challenges -- and am of the opinion that if you can't write at least a Loeb/Austen-level Superman, then you shouldn't write Superman at all. But that's just an ideal. I'd rather have a great story with a low-powered Man of Steel than a shite story with an uber-Superman, any day of the week.

> Would it be similar to the "pre-crisis" Superman that can spin a planet on his fingertip type of strong?

At times. At times stronger.

> For all of Superman's superfeats, here's my personal perspective:
> 1. A Superman who can never ever lose to Hulk in a pure strength contest no matter how mad Hulk can get to the point of Hulk having a heart attack from rage already.

Sounds good to me. I don't think Marvel heroes are typically very strong. High feats are exceedingly rare for them relative to Superman, so it only makes sense to me that someone like Hulk couldn't match up to Superman.

> 2. A Superman who only has these three weaknesses: Kryptonite, No Yellow Sun (or Red Sun type of radiation), and Magic.

I don't like the red sunlight weakness. His heat vision is red sunlight; sunset is red sunlight -- those things don't weaken him. I like what Berganza laid down: Red sunlight simply doesn't feed him, as it is the power of a dying star.

Kryptonite: It's run its course as an auto-win. Either keep his tolerance ridiculously high (relative to what it was) a la Infinite Crisis and the Loeb years or just get rid of it. No easy wins over Superman.

Magic: Superman should be no more or less vulnerable to magic than any other person with his level of strength, invulnerability and will power. On average, I think this is how DC portrays him: He'll take spells, blasts and shots of magic that floor the entire League (Seven Caskets, Primeval, etc.), but leave him standing. He's Superman, for Christ's sake. Again, refer to what we typically saw during the Loeb/Casey/Schultz years. That worked.

Want to challenge Superman? Then create a character that can beat the shit out of him: Enough force, magic, tech, whatever can give you a win. Make the villain work for it, though. Make the attack extremely powerful; or make it complex. Challenge the villain. He's Superman for Christ's sake.

When Superman fought Overmind, Overmind defeated Superman very creatively and credibly: First, he isolated Superman miles under ground, cutting Kal-El off from the Sun. Then, he threw an Earth-powered villain at Superman to soften him up (deep in the Earth, the villain's powers went way up). Then, he doused the weakened Superman with solar-inhibiting/sucking nanites, and supercharged Kryptonite -- all this stuff enhanced by B-13 tech and Natasha Irons' mental stregths. And THEN Overmind, himself empowered with B-13 tech, beat the hell out of Superman, over the course of two issues, iirc. And it was still a tough fight, if memory serves.

I loved that fight. Superman's powers raised the bar for the villain, and the villain brought out his a-game to take down the Man of Steel ... not just some green rock or stinky rabbit's foot.

> 3. As a Thorfan, I never see Thor winning against an out for blood super blitzing Superman amidst my perspective of Superman having weakness to magic.
>
> Original Superman thoughts:
>
> Kryptonite is simple... just too many stories of any tom, dick, and harry lugging one around to make Supes go all faint in the corny issues.
>
> Red Sun - well, take away his powers and well, that's it.
>
> Magic -> Ah... this is where there's a big difference. My version is that Mjolnir should extremely hurt Superman if Thor hurls it at him at full strength with Superman down for the count or dead. My view is that a magic sword can cut Superman just as a normal sword can cut through a normal human. Superman getting bitten by dracula also falls in this category of weakness to magic/supernatural.

Too many examples of Superman resisting high level magic to justify him being so easily felled, imo. Run through the archives and you'll see (specifically, look for Ed J's old feat list). Osiris, Primeval, Blaze, Skyhook, IDCAP, Cythonna, Elder God (Seven Caskets), etc., etc. -- have you seen some of the uber-level magic he's taken in stride? Those examples far outweigh the low-end/extreme vulnerability stuff, imo.
>
> Pure power -> ah.. now this.. where the Hulk is a prime example of extreme strength -> I still honestly believe that Superman should outmuscle Hulk and Thor at the same time. Superman is just that strong.
>
> Byrne Superman thoughts:
>
> This is where the pure power is questionable -> Seems Supes is kinda like in the "class 100" level as Thor belongs to. I think this was made to make Superman "interesting" since he was just so unbeatable before sans the three weaknesses which is quite corny like yellow was to Green Lantern.
>
> Current Superman:
>
> Now this is where my question is. Which Superman is this now?

I have no idea. I haven't been able to gauge the post-IC Superman's power level.

> From Byrne going back to the original unbeatable Superman but can resist Kryptonite (up up and away), has a battery charge before running out when subjected to Red Sun radiation (infinite crisis), and resists/laughs off magic (like SBP did against Black Adam)?
>
> Is this really Superman now? If so, JLA/Avengers shouldn't have lasted more than a single panel because Superman should have outpunched/outsped/outlasted anything out there. Mjolnir truly would have been cut in half with his fart.

Superman only *really is* whatever a writer says he is at any given time. If, say, Casey wrote JLA/Avengers ... ?

> Don't get me wrong. I like Superman too though I just like Marvel's universe better than DC's in general. Only DC I like are mostly from the Superfriends related ones (Supes, Bats, WW, GL, Flash). I'm just sad that Thor is still "dead" back in Marvel. I hope he returns really fresh from being King Thor who has the power to destroy a planet accidentally by touching it with his finger then go to more interesting levels in the next issues.

Okay.

_rc



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