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Post By
rc

In Reply To
Teletran

Subj: Re: Question for RC
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 04:38:51 pm EST (Viewed 1 times)
Reply Subj: Re: Question for RC
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 05:06:44 am EST

Previous Post

Hi RC!

> While I have my preferences, ultimately it has to be the level of power at which a writer can generate a good story.

I think that sums it up. The thing is, Superman is Superman and... well... he should be the perfect nice guy all around hero.

I guess what made me not like Superman is more of the surrounding cast and villains that make up his world. Sans JLA, I really can't appreciate much of his "world". (I played the VS card game some time ago and looking through the Superman expansion, it was only Superman that I liked.. no one else.)
>
> I prefer a powerful Superman -- big power, big challenges -- and am of the opinion that if you can't write at least a Loeb/Austen-level Superman, then you shouldn't write Superman at all. But that's just an ideal. I'd rather have a great story with a low-powered Man of Steel than a shite story with an uber-Superman, any day of the week.

I just don't like it when suddenly, Superman would get choked by a normal snake ala what happened to the Hulk or get knocked out by a flying brick ala Silver Surfer.

After just playing Justice League Heroes recently, I just couldn't believe it that I was playing Superman but had to run around like a headless chicken to regenerate power and health because of some dumb robots. I mean... hey!!! I'm Superman!!! What gives?!?

> Sounds good to me. I don't think Marvel heroes are typically very strong. High feats are exceedingly rare for them relative to Superman, so it only makes sense to me that someone like Hulk couldn't match up to Superman.

Agreed. Though I felt bad about JLA/Avengers because Thor lost to Supes, it was only because of my perception of Superman being treated normal due to magic. Sans that, Thor shouldn't have a chance.

> I don't like the red sunlight weakness. His heat vision is red sunlight; sunset is red sunlight -- those things don't weaken him. I like what Berganza laid down: Red sunlight simply doesn't feed him, as it is the power of a dying star.

Hmm.. maybe Red Sunlight seeps into Superman and drives out the yellow sun that he's kept. (kinda like first in first out concept)
>
> Kryptonite: It's run its course as an auto-win. Either keep his tolerance ridiculously high (relative to what it was) a la Infinite Crisis and the Loeb years or just get rid of it. No easy wins over Superman.

Unfortunately for Lex.
>
> Magic: Superman should be no more or less vulnerable to magic than any other person with his level of strength, invulnerability and will power. On average, I think this is how DC portrays him: He'll take spells, blasts and shots of magic that floor the entire League (Seven Caskets, Primeval, etc.), but leave him standing. He's Superman, for Christ's sake. Again, refer to what we typically saw during the Loeb/Casey/Schultz years. That worked.

But is Superman still very vulnerable to Dracula? Or will the next bite result to Dracula having to make an appointment with his dentist.

> When Superman fought Overmind, Overmind defeated Superman very creatively and credibly: First, he isolated Superman miles under ground, cutting Kal-El off from the Sun. Then, he threw an Earth-powered villain at Superman to soften him up (deep in the Earth, the villain's powers went way up). Then, he doused the weakened Superman with solar-inhibiting/sucking nanites, and supercharged Kryptonite -- all this stuff enhanced by B-13 tech and Natasha Irons' mental stregths. And THEN Overmind, himself empowered with B-13 tech, beat the hell out of Superman, over the course of two issues, iirc. And it was still a tough fight, if memory serves.

Wow! Didn't know that. Which issues were those?
>
> I loved that fight. Superman's powers raised the bar for the villain, and the villain brought out his a-game to take down the Man of Steel ... not just some green rock or stinky rabbit's foot.

Or.. uh... be named "Batman". Guess that's the fourth weakness of Superman.
>
> Too many examples of Superman resisting high level magic to justify him being so easily felled, imo. Run through the archives and you'll see (specifically, look for Ed J's old feat list). Osiris, Primeval, Blaze, Skyhook, IDCAP, Cythonna, Elder God (Seven Caskets), etc., etc. -- have you seen some of the uber-level magic he's taken in stride? Those examples far outweigh the low-end/extreme vulnerability stuff, imo.

Having Superman win over magic now certainly makes him tougher to write.
> >
>
> Superman only *really is* whatever a writer says he is at any given time. If, say, Casey wrote JLA/Avengers ... ?

Well... Superman in Justice League and JLU animated pretty much jobbed most of the time. Guess it's really normal in teams that someone really so powerful gets dragged into the power levels of the weaker ones.

Thor chumming with the Avengers is certainly another example of that.
>
Cheers!

>

Hello, Teletran.

> I just don't like it when suddenly, Superman would get choked by a normal snake ala what happened to the Hulk or get knocked out by a flying brick ala Silver Surfer.

When has this happened to Superman -- low ends as bad as these, that is?

> Hmm.. maybe Red Sunlight seeps into Superman and drives out the yellow sun that he's kept. (kinda like first in first out concept)

Under Berganza, it did nothing of the sort. Exertion is what drained Superman.
>
> But is Superman still very vulnerable to Dracula? Or will the next bite result to Dracula having to make an appointment with his dentist.

Depends on the writer, and, as I said before, I have no gauge on the post-IC Superman's powers.

> > When Superman fought Overmind, Overmind defeated Superman very creatively and credibly: First, he isolated Superman miles under ground, cutting Kal-El off from the Sun. Then, he threw an Earth-powered villain at Superman to soften him up (deep in the Earth, the villain's powers went way up). Then, he doused the weakened Superman with solar-inhibiting/sucking nanites, and supercharged Kryptonite -- all this stuff enhanced by B-13 tech and Natasha Irons' mental stregths. And THEN Overmind, himself empowered with B-13 tech, beat the hell out of Superman, over the course of two issues, iirc. And it was still a tough fight, if memory serves.
>
> Wow! Didn't know that. Which issues were those?

Ask Omike. He should be able to give you the issue numbers.

> Having Superman win over magic now certainly makes him tougher to write.

Not really. Just make the magic you throw at Superman, like the strength or tech, etc., be really, really powerful. Strong enough to challenge him; strong enough to easily fell anyone less powerful than Superman.

_rc



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