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Post By
Daveym 
Moderator

Location: Lancashire
Member Since: Sat May 17, 2008
In Reply To
fuggernaut

Member Since: Sat Oct 23, 2021
Subj: I Rather Liked the Idea that he just Faded away, Disappeared into Myth... that there was Never a Closure as Such.
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 at 02:24:26 pm EST (Viewed 126 times)
Reply Subj: Anyone else not like they never explained what happened to E1 Superman?
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 at 09:52:03 pm EST (Viewed 134 times)




    Quote:
    For all the endless revisiting of Crises and continuity, I'm amazed no writer ever tackled this. It's always been an annoying brain worm to me that there wasn't some issue showing pre-crisis Superman "alteration" into post-crisis Superman, as pre-crisis Superman did NOT die!



    Quote:
    At the end of COIE 12, E1 Superman is a survivor on the last remaining Earth. Of course, E1 was the "main" Superman and there was never a formal distinction between him and E2 Superman until a 70s retcon.



    Quote:
    Then comes Moore's "imaginary story" WHTTMOT which happens in the future and features E1 Superman post-crisis. We know this because he mourns the dead Supergirl!

You have to remember that Alan Moore's story is 'Imaginary', a tribute to those Silver-Age imaginary stories. Over in DC Comics Presents, published a little later If I recall correctly, you get a deviation from that story, and this issue is arguably the last appearance of the Pre-Crisis Superman. Or... was it actually Booster Gold #6? Hmm....

Whatever. Another fly in the ointment comes with Superman #416, which is a lovely story by Elliot Maggin looking again at the complex character of the Pre-Crisis Lex Luthor and the relationship Superman has with him.
This story is set partly in the present-day but as reflected by an aged wiser Superman in the far future - there is nothing saying this story is out of canon, so in my view this is perhaps a story that is more canonical that 'Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow'.


    Quote:
    Then a few months later the Byrne reboot happens which of course wipes out the prior history and any memory of such.



    Quote:
    But not too long later it is understood that post-crisis Superman fought in the COIE (but with selective memories) which actually placed "Man of Steel" taking place pre-crisis! And post-crisis Superman would have pre-Crisis memories of Robin, Teen Titans, and other things.

No, the idea was that there was a new history now where in this revised universe Superman fought in a Crisis yes, but it didn't involve other universes, and there was no Supergirl or Earth-2 Superman involved.


    Quote:
    I think someone mentioned there was an an obscure issue of some title that showed that "memory wave" hit the denizens of the last Earth after COIE and that's why their memories or histories changed or something. Anyone know this issue by chance?

One example was the final issue of All-Star Squadron, another was the four-part Legend of Wonder Woman series by Kurt Busiek and Trina Robbins.


    Quote:
    But it's always been an annoying brain worm to me that there wasn't some issue showing pre-crisis Superman "alteration" into post-crisis Superman, as pre-crisis Superman did NOT die!

It depends on how you look at it. the aftermath of the Crisis was a messy affair that left a lot of holes and continuity problems that went on for decades afterwards. The thinking was that the rebooted Superman was the Pre-Crisis Superman, revised. It's only in more recent years and with the '52' universes concept that there were some suggestions that Earth-1 wasn't the earth we were seeing in the main DCU, but was an earth that still existed out there in the returned multiverse.


    Quote:
    Some people just assume that pre-crisis Superman become post-crisis Superman, while others are adamant that they are two different guys.



    Quote:
    I'm astounded that Geoff Johns never tackled this in all his continuity heavy crisis work.


He has actually! But even he seems to flip-flop on the question.

Back in 2006's Infinite Crisis he uses the Earth-2 Superman to retell the story of the original multiverse and his relationship with the Earth-1 Superman. Johns makes it clear enough here that the post-1986 Superman is a revised Earth-1 Superman. His history and universe reordered by the Crisis. It's here that Johns also reveals that the merged earth at the end of the 1985 Crisis contained an additional earth - Earth 8. Which had been the original home to new generation heroes like Kyle Rayner & Jason Rusch. We could infer that the Superman of the post-crisis earth contained elements of the earths that had merged as he had elements of the Earth-2 Superman in his new background and possibly Earth-8 elements (the Byrne Krypton). And all of this was very reasonable analysis and a clearing-up from Geoff Johns.

But later, after their '52' event reintroduces a new multiverse, Johns does a Justice Society Annual that revisits the original Earth-2 and we see it in a modernday context. Power Girl is searching for her Earth-2, but is told that the earth of post 1986 has to be a completely different earth to her Earth-1 and 2. And her Earth-2 and 1 is somewhere still out there.

Later in the recent Doomsady clock series we are told by Doctor Manhattan that the earth-1 at the end of Crisis is still out there and carried on, the earth we read about in the DCU is a whole other world entirely.

So which is it? The above explanation, or Johns' original "merged-earth" of 2006s Infinite Crisis?

At this point I don't think it matters, as it's all fiction....












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