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Post By
adey

In Reply To
Slickster

Subj: well from the sounds of that summary I may as well throw the whole thing in the bin..
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 02:32:11 pm EDT
Reply Subj: Re: Thor/ Captain America pages 1 - 6
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 02:10:15 pm EDT

Previous Post

Very good. God(s) forbid I should ever give anyone an unqualified compliment though... I'm not a jerk, really, just socially inept. So... Here is some constructive critique of the art.

Anatomy:
It's hard to find room in a superhero to jam in all the things that are supposed to be exaggerated anatomically. But whatever happens by the end the belt has to fall higher than halfway up.
On both figures the pelvis area needs more definition. On these pages the design of these is simplified so that we see an inverted Y shape and taper to the thigh that is equal on both sides and any partially rotated angle. But even under the Kirby-esque armor we should discern that the upper legs have a more complicated shape, more hollow on the sides below the hip.
The knee should be no further than halfway down the leg and after the calf tapers down it starts getting thicker again well before it reaches the heel: This shape should be exaggerated but not simplified.
The upper wrists just like the areas above the ankles need more definition and length both for overall body proportion and the look of these body parts.
The foot of a dynamic looking figure, as with the hands, needs to look like an independently strong and agile unit. Like if it were somehow magically separated from the body it could still get the job done. Really every component part of a superhero body should have enough complexity and power to survive on it's own for at least three months in hostile terrain. Take a look at a Neal Adam's upper leg and tell me it hasn't already grown its own lungs just in case.

Faces:
Thor's facial structure looks a bit watery because the nose is kind of slight and too perfect, and the eyes are too widely spaced. The area between the eyes, which is obscured by the helmet, is the part of the face that most implies strength, more than a chin of jawline or anything. What the closeups suggest (as opposed to the long-view of Thor on page 3 which is an exception) is that Thor's eyes lack a strong bony anchor behind that metal. This has nothing to do with how accurately you've rendered the facial feature... It may be that cheating in that regard is necessary to make the eyes (and nose) look right with that helmet.
Lastly with the faces the expressions are simmering, as superheroes tend to do, and it isn't inappropriate it's just not precise enough what emotion is being put across. Is Thor feeling remorse, piety, superiority to mortality and injustice? Brotherly love for Cap?
For overall Thor reference, in the youthful style you've chosen, one could do worse than this recently substance-busted Dane:
http://www.klausriis.com/

Scenery:
Too perfect! Looks like great storyboarding work but needs to go through the same collision with reality that storyboards do, in that case. A crew would find, or erect, two trees to frame a stretch of road like that, and would find or make a graveyard like that, but when the time came to set up the shot there would be lots of differences. Also, in the first panel, the graves on the right are way too large as they move off into the distance if that is a flat plane in perspective. It could be toughed up to look like the swell of a hill and preserve the composition but then you might be tempted to silhouette some graves against the mountains just to bear that out. This seems to be what's going on in the second to last panel on the bottom of that page with the trees and plants against the mountain but it's not obvious. In general it's a good idea to put things on top of other things partially to help sort the distance. In that same second-to-last panel this is true too: The way that the trees and tombstones are arranged on the ground in such a way that, from the angle of the drawing, they maintain comfortable distances, makes it look like they were arranged just for the drawing rather than it's being a drawing of a real arrangement. I just checked Flickr and came up with some reference like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacobkrejci/149589886/in/set-72057594120929093/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacobkrejci/149589886/in/set-72057594120929093/
Still I'd sort of expect Cap might be interred in a military cemetery but when or if Marvel does/did have a burial we'll see what they think. Of course Cap has been buried previously....

As to the statue of Cap it's quite dynamic and it's podium is naturalistic in its angle so all told it's hard, without coloring and inking, to tell it is even a statue initially. You might want to do something to make that clearer by indicating a metallic finish perhaps... Showing how the colors of the costume are supposed to be differentiated it is monotone metal, etc.


> Hello.
>
> I finally managed to get some of these pages finished for this short story I am doing staring these two icons.
>
> Basically, the story is about Thor returning to Earth and finding out about Cap, but not in the way you may think.
>
> I have pages 7 & 8 thumbnailed and have started pencilling page 7 now.
> I have had to use some references from Civil War and the death of Cap for these pages which you will see.
> I think it's a nice little story which shows the total respect Thor has for Cap ( which people obviously know ) and I have a great couple of pages near the end where you will see just how angry and greif-stricken a Thundergod can get on a global scale ( if I can pull it off ).
>
> I plan to do about 12-14 pages max.
> Once I have the other pages done ( maybe two at a time ) I'll post them.
>
> Thing is, I haven't even decided on a cover yet !!
>
> enjoy
>
> adey \:\-\)
>

.....just kidding.. \:\-D

I know I have problems in some areas like anatomy, facial expressions etc.. I am really a big critique in my own work more than anyone ever could be. I'm always looking to improve and if a person knocks me back for my work- then so be it, I'll come back stronger.


Maybe, tomorrow I may draw something that completely nullifies everything you said \:\-D , but that's not gonna happen yet.

thanks for the advice and references though, I appreciate it.

just one thing, I wanted to make Cap's "burial" be less formal, which makes the situation worse for him.
Also, I was trying to go with a more "stoney" look for the statue, and not so metalic.



adey \:\-\)



> Very good. God(s) forbid I should ever give anyone an unqualified compliment though... I'm not a jerk, really, just socially inept. So... Here is some constructive critique of the art.
>
> Anatomy:
> It's hard to find room in a superhero to jam in all the things that are supposed to be exaggerated anatomically. But whatever happens by the end the belt has to fall higher than halfway up.
> On both figures the pelvis area needs more definition. The design of these is simplified so that we see an inverted Y shape and taper to the thigh that is equal on both sides and any partially rotated angle.
> The knee should be no further than halfway down the leg and after the calf tapers down it starts getting thicker again well before it reaches the heel: This shape should be exaggerated but not simplified.
> The upper wrists just like the areas above the ankles need more definition and length both for overall body proportion and the look of these body parts.
> The foot of a dynamic looking figure, as with the hands, needs to look like an independently strong and agile unit. Like if it were somehow magically separated from the body it could still get the job done. Really every component part of a superhero body should have enough complexity and power to survive on it's own for at least three months in hostile terrain. Take a look at a Neal Adam's upper leg and tell me it hasn't already grown its own lungs just in case.
>
> Faces:
> Thor's facial structure looks a bit watery because the nose is kind of slight and too perfect, and the eyes are too widely spaced. The area between the eyes, which is obscured by the helmet, is the part of the face that most implies strength, more than a chin of jawline or anything. What the closeups suggest (as opposed to the long-view of Thor on page 3 which is an exception) is that Thor's eyes lack a strong bony anchor behind that metal. This has nothing to do with how accurately you've rendered the facial feature... It may be that cheating in that regard is necessary to make the eyes (and nose) look right with that helmet.
> Lastly with the faces the expressions are simmering, as superheroes tend to do, and it isn't inappropriate it's just not precise enough what emotion is being put across. Is Thor feeling remorse, piety, superiority to mortality and injustice? Brotherly love for Cap?
> For overall Thor reference, in the youthful style you've chosen, one could do worse than this recently substance-busted Dane:
> http://www.klausriis.com/
>
> Scenery:
> Too perfect! Looks like great storyboarding work but needs to go through the same collision with reality that storyboards do, in that case. A crew would find, or erect, two trees to frame a stretch of road like that, and would find or make a graveyard like that, but when the time came to set up the shot there would be lots of differences. Also, in the first panel, the graves on the right are way too large as they move off into the distance if that is a flat plane in perspective. It could be toughed up to look like the swell of a hill and preserve the composition but then you might be tempted to silhouette some graves against the mountains just to bear that out. This seems to be what's going on in the second to last panel on the bottom of that page with the trees and plants against the mountain but it's not obvious. In general it's a good idea to put things on top of other things partially to help sort the distance. In that same second-to-last panel this is true too: The way that the trees and tombstones are arranged on the ground in such a way that, from the angle of the drawing, they maintain comfortable distances, makes it look like they were arranged just for the drawing rather than it's being a drawing of a real arrangement. I just checked Flickr and came up with some reference like this:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacobkrejci/149589886/in/set-72057594120929093/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacobkrejci/149589886/in/set-72057594120929093/
> Still I'd sort of expect Cap might be interred in a military cemetery but when or if Marvel does/did have a burial we'll see what they think. Of course Cap has been buried previously....
>
> As to the statue of Cap it's quite dynamic and it's podium is naturalistic in its angle so all told it's hard, without coloring and inking, to tell it is even a statue initially. You might want to do something to make that clearer by indicating a metallic finish perhaps... Showing how the colors of the costume are supposed to be differentiated it is monotone metal, etc.
>
>
> > Hello.
> >
> > I finally managed to get some of these pages finished for this short story I am doing staring these two icons.
> >
> > Basically, the story is about Thor returning to Earth and finding out about Cap, but not in the way you may think.
> >
> > I have pages 7 & 8 thumbnailed and have started pencilling page 7 now.
> > I have had to use some references from Civil War and the death of Cap for these pages which you will see.
> > I think it's a nice little story which shows the total respect Thor has for Cap ( which people obviously know ) and I have a great couple of pages near the end where you will see just how angry and greif-stricken a Thundergod can get on a global scale ( if I can pull it off ).
> >
> > I plan to do about 12-14 pages max.
> > Once I have the other pages done ( maybe two at a time ) I'll post them.
> >
> > Thing is, I haven't even decided on a cover yet !!
> >
> > enjoy
> >
> > adey \:\-\)
> >


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