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Post By
Slickster

In Reply To
adey

Subj: Re: well from the sounds of that summary I may as well throw the whole thing in the bin..
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 03:07:52 pm EDT
Reply Subj: well from the sounds of that summary I may as well throw the whole thing in the bin..
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 02:32:11 pm EDT

Previous Post

.....just kidding.. \:\-D

I know I have problems in some areas like anatomy, facial expressions etc.. I am really a big critique in my own work more than anyone ever could be. I'm always looking to improve and if a person knocks me back for my work- then so be it, I'll come back stronger.


Maybe, tomorrow I may draw something that completely nullifies everything you said \:\-D , but that's not gonna happen yet.

thanks for the advice and references though, I appreciate it.

just one thing, I wanted to make Cap's "burial" be less formal, which makes the situation worse for him.
Also, I was trying to go with a more "stoney" look for the statue, and not so metalic.



adey \:\-\)



> Very good. God(s) forbid I should ever give anyone an unqualified compliment though... I'm not a jerk, really, just socially inept. So... Here is some constructive critique of the art.
>
> Anatomy:
> It's hard to find room in a superhero to jam in all the things that are supposed to be exaggerated anatomically. But whatever happens by the end the belt has to fall higher than halfway up.
> On both figures the pelvis area needs more definition. The design of these is simplified so that we see an inverted Y shape and taper to the thigh that is equal on both sides and any partially rotated angle.
> The knee should be no further than halfway down the leg and after the calf tapers down it starts getting thicker again well before it reaches the heel: This shape should be exaggerated but not simplified.
> The upper wrists just like the areas above the ankles need more definition and length both for overall body proportion and the look of these body parts.
> The foot of a dynamic looking figure, as with the hands, needs to look like an independently strong and agile unit. Like if it were somehow magically separated from the body it could still get the job done. Really every component part of a superhero body should have enough complexity and power to survive on it's own for at least three months in hostile terrain. Take a look at a Neal Adam's upper leg and tell me it hasn't already grown its own lungs just in case.
>
> Faces:
> Thor's facial structure looks a bit watery because the nose is kind of slight and too perfect, and the eyes are too widely spaced. The area between the eyes, which is obscured by the helmet, is the part of the face that most implies strength, more than a chin of jawline or anything. What the closeups suggest (as opposed to the long-view of Thor on page 3 which is an exception) is that Thor's eyes lack a strong bony anchor behind that metal. This has nothing to do with how accurately you've rendered the facial feature... It may be that cheating in that regard is necessary to make the eyes (and nose) look right with that helmet.
> Lastly with the faces the expressions are simmering, as superheroes tend to do, and it isn't inappropriate it's just not precise enough what emotion is being put across. Is Thor feeling remorse, piety, superiority to mortality and injustice? Brotherly love for Cap?
> For overall Thor reference, in the youthful style you've chosen, one could do worse than this recently substance-busted Dane:
> http://www.klausriis.com/
>
> Scenery:
> Too perfect! Looks like great storyboarding work but needs to go through the same collision with reality that storyboards do, in that case. A crew would find, or erect, two trees to frame a stretch of road like that, and would find or make a graveyard like that, but when the time came to set up the shot there would be lots of differences. Also, in the first panel, the graves on the right are way too large as they move off into the distance if that is a flat plane in perspective. It could be toughed up to look like the swell of a hill and preserve the composition but then you might be tempted to silhouette some graves against the mountains just to bear that out. This seems to be what's going on in the second to last panel on the bottom of that page with the trees and plants against the mountain but it's not obvious. In general it's a good idea to put things on top of other things partially to help sort the distance. In that same second-to-last panel this is true too: The way that the trees and tombstones are arranged on the ground in such a way that, from the angle of the drawing, they maintain comfortable distances, makes it look like they were arranged just for the drawing rather than it's being a drawing of a real arrangement. I just checked Flickr and came up with some reference like this:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacobkrejci/149589886/in/set-72057594120929093/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacobkrejci/149589886/in/set-72057594120929093/
> Still I'd sort of expect Cap might be interred in a military cemetery but when or if Marvel does/did have a burial we'll see what they think. Of course Cap has been buried previously....
>
> As to the statue of Cap it's quite dynamic and it's podium is naturalistic in its angle so all told it's hard, without coloring and inking, to tell it is even a statue initially. You might want to do something to make that clearer by indicating a metallic finish perhaps... Showing how the colors of the costume are supposed to be differentiated it is monotone metal, etc.
>
>
> > Hello.
> >
> > I finally managed to get some of these pages finished for this short story I am doing staring these two icons.
> >
> > Basically, the story is about Thor returning to Earth and finding out about Cap, but not in the way you may think.
> >
> > I have pages 7 & 8 thumbnailed and have started pencilling page 7 now.
> > I have had to use some references from Civil War and the death of Cap for these pages which you will see.
> > I think it's a nice little story which shows the total respect Thor has for Cap ( which people obviously know ) and I have a great couple of pages near the end where you will see just how angry and greif-stricken a Thundergod can get on a global scale ( if I can pull it off ).
> >
> > I plan to do about 12-14 pages max.
> > Once I have the other pages done ( maybe two at a time ) I'll post them.
> >
> > Thing is, I haven't even decided on a cover yet !!
> >
> > enjoy
> >
> > adey \:\-\)
> >

I've pretty well given up myself, partly a result of being too aware of everything I'm doing wrong, but not having the patience and humility to plow ahead and get all the details right in due time. It's good to produce finished works like this as a benchmark. It's only because of what works that what doesn't work becomes clear; and then you can work on those by sketching and come back to another finished-piece benchmark after a while and get them closer to where they can be. I wouldn't recommend altering the art to address anything I've pointed out.

If I had a gun to my head to produce good comic art in a month's time I'd rely heavily on photo reference... But then most artists do too... A lot of people outside of commercial art think of it as cheating but... It isn't. My father is an illustrator and I watched him work for many years (pre-internet, he had huge swipe files of printed photos). Also I saw comic artists he knew work and they all worked from photos too, much of the time, and when they didn't the work was the worse for it as a rule. Some people like Kirby transcend reality and are instead doing pure design that merely alludes to the world and people we know, but that's a somewhat different talent.

Keep up the great work; just keep getting better. Superheroes and their world have to build on our own. Superhero figures and backgrounds, therefore, need to first look great as real-world representations, and then above and beyond that have that extra power and iconic quality to put them over the top. So it stands to reason that all effort spent being a great illustrator of terrestrial things will provide a better foundation for comic art. You probably know all that but I have found---In the areas where I haven't been discouraged by my ultimately insufficient ability---That sometimes it's the fiftieth time hearing something that it is truly taken to heart.

In college I had this one art class where we were asked to draw crumpled brown paper bags from life. Well I sucked at it. But if I learned how to do it I know that as a consequence I'd be far better at convincingly rendering human anatomy, draped or undraped, or anything else, in any pov or pose. But it's boring subject matter and the results are painfully inadequate because with a crumpled paper bag, unlike a human or superhero, there aren't myriad things to signify unmistakably what it is one is trying to draw. A crumpled paper bag drawn at all unconvincingly doesn't look like anything at all. If that kind of representationalism can be mastered then things that otherwise might be taken for granted, like de-emphasized muscle groups, can be rendered with casual gravity that makes the details you are focusing on pop out even more.

Art is a painful process... Why else would comics be about dudes beating up dudes who are doing bad things? Moreover, the obsessive, rigorous process of becoming and being these superheroes is analogous to what their creators undoubtedly feel about the process of creating them, and of getting to that point. Sure back in the Golden Age when it was easier to get middling artwork and half-baked stories published heroes also had it easier, being born that way (without X-angst) or getting a handy injection. But progressively since then the more successful heroes (and villains) have had more drive and more agony.

Incidentally, I think the current incarnation of Thor has it too easy so far, by far. And I also think that if he were to resurrect Captain America too uneventfully.... Well I think that maybe as your story progresses it would benefit if you injected into it some of the aspirational pain you may feel in the act of creating it.

> .....just kidding.. \:\-D
>
> I know I have problems in some areas like anatomy, facial expressions etc.. I am really a big critique in my own work more than anyone ever could be. I'm always looking to improve and if a person knocks me back for my work- then so be it.
>
> I know I'll keep improving.
> Maybe, tomorrow I may draw something that completely nullifies everything you said \:\-D , but that's not gonna happen yet.
>
> thanks for the advice and references though, duly noted.
>
> adey \:\-\)
>
>
>
> > Very good. God(s) forbid I should ever give anyone an unqualified compliment though... I'm not a jerk, really, just socially inept. So... Here is some constructive critique of the art.
> >
> > Anatomy:
> > It's hard to find room in a superhero to jam in all the things that are supposed to be exaggerated anatomically. But whatever happens by the end the belt has to fall higher than halfway up.
> > On both figures the pelvis area needs more definition. The design of these is simplified so that we see an inverted Y shape and taper to the thigh that is equal on both sides and any partially rotated angle.
> > The knee should be no further than halfway down the leg and after the calf tapers down it starts getting thicker again well before it reaches the heel: This shape should be exaggerated but not simplified.
> > The upper wrists just like the areas above the ankles need more definition and length both for overall body proportion and the look of these body parts.
> > The foot of a dynamic looking figure, as with the hands, needs to look like an independently strong and agile unit. Like if it were somehow magically separated from the body it could still get the job done. Really every component part of a superhero body should have enough complexity and power to survive on it's own for at least three months in hostile terrain. Take a look at a Neal Adam's upper leg and tell me it hasn't already grown its own lungs just in case.
> >
> > Faces:
> > Thor's facial structure looks a bit watery because the nose is kind of slight and too perfect, and the eyes are too widely spaced. The area between the eyes, which is obscured by the helmet, is the part of the face that most implies strength, more than a chin of jawline or anything. What the closeups suggest (as opposed to the long-view of Thor on page 3 which is an exception) is that Thor's eyes lack a strong bony anchor behind that metal. This has nothing to do with how accurately you've rendered the facial feature... It may be that cheating in that regard is necessary to make the eyes (and nose) look right with that helmet.
> > Lastly with the faces the expressions are simmering, as superheroes tend to do, and it isn't inappropriate it's just not precise enough what emotion is being put across. Is Thor feeling remorse, piety, superiority to mortality and injustice? Brotherly love for Cap?
> > For overall Thor reference, in the youthful style you've chosen, one could do worse than this recently substance-busted Dane:
> > http://www.klausriis.com/
> >
> > Scenery:
> > Too perfect! Looks like great storyboarding work but needs to go through the same collision with reality that storyboards do, in that case. A crew would find, or erect, two trees to frame a stretch of road like that, and would find or make a graveyard like that, but when the time came to set up the shot there would be lots of differences. Also, in the first panel, the graves on the right are way too large as they move off into the distance if that is a flat plane in perspective. It could be toughed up to look like the swell of a hill and preserve the composition but then you might be tempted to silhouette some graves against the mountains just to bear that out. This seems to be what's going on in the second to last panel on the bottom of that page with the trees and plants against the mountain but it's not obvious. In general it's a good idea to put things on top of other things partially to help sort the distance. In that same second-to-last panel this is true too: The way that the trees and tombstones are arranged on the ground in such a way that, from the angle of the drawing, they maintain comfortable distances, makes it look like they were arranged just for the drawing rather than it's being a drawing of a real arrangement. I just checked Flickr and came up with some reference like this:
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacobkrejci/149589886/in/set-72057594120929093/
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacobkrejci/149589886/in/set-72057594120929093/
> > Still I'd sort of expect Cap might be interred in a military cemetery but when or if Marvel does/did have a burial we'll see what they think. Of course Cap has been buried previously....
> >
> > As to the statue of Cap it's quite dynamic and it's podium is naturalistic in its angle so all told it's hard, without coloring and inking, to tell it is even a statue initially. You might want to do something to make that clearer by indicating a metallic finish perhaps... Showing how the colors of the costume are supposed to be differentiated it is monotone metal, etc.
> >
> >
> > > Hello.
> > >
> > > I finally managed to get some of these pages finished for this short story I am doing staring these two icons.
> > >
> > > Basically, the story is about Thor returning to Earth and finding out about Cap, but not in the way you may think.
> > >
> > > I have pages 7 & 8 thumbnailed and have started pencilling page 7 now.
> > > I have had to use some references from Civil War and the death of Cap for these pages which you will see.
> > > I think it's a nice little story which shows the total respect Thor has for Cap ( which people obviously know ) and I have a great couple of pages near the end where you will see just how angry and greif-stricken a Thundergod can get on a global scale ( if I can pull it off ).
> > >
> > > I plan to do about 12-14 pages max.
> > > Once I have the other pages done ( maybe two at a time ) I'll post them.
> > >
> > > Thing is, I haven't even decided on a cover yet !!
> > >
> > > enjoy
> > >
> > > adey \:\-\)
> > >


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